A Trial Period of Change, For Success

I would rather lose in Laramie and live in Provo
then to win in Laramie and have to live there.
Lavell Edwards

I would rather have a 7-5 season playing 9 P5 teams
then to have a 10-2 season that we programmed for an almost sure win.
Maxine Martell

I love the classiness, totally absent of any form of arrogance that comes out of each word spoken by our head coach. He is indeed refreshing.
Ron Uharriet

The budget he, Sataki, is given to hire his assistants, and Coordinators are extremely limited compared to top-notch P5 Universities.

Had his budget been competitive, he would have been able to hire Grimes as a top-notch offensive line coach, instead of an in-experience OC. The lack of experience as an OC was showing each time (6) that we reached the Red Zone in our last game vs Boise St. Grimes would have made a brilliant Line coach for BYU, if we offered a competitive stipend for his services. We might have had one of the best line coaches in the Nation. (Just one of many examples)

The number of LDS Head Coaches, Offensive Coordinators, and Defensive Coordinators that is in Good Standing with the Church is extremely few among the great coaches that we are now competing against.

That which we continually TRY to do, over and over again, each new season, since trying to play something close to a P5 schedule, as an Independent , and failing in doing so, each season, make some of the decision makers think that if we keep doing the same thing, over and over again, eventually, things will get better, while the rest of us think that it is insanity to keep doing things over and over again that proves never to work in our favor.

It is my opinion THAT A TRIAL PERIOD, with the needed changes be given a chance.

Change #1
Make the requirement that the HC BE LDS AND IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE CHURCH, instead, let this requirement fall into the hands of the Athletic Director.

The Athletic Director would keep all the Sports Programs running smoothly AND IN KEEPING WITH CHURCH STANDARDS.

There are not enough P5 experienced head coaches, and there are not enough P5 Offensive Coordinators and there is not enough P5 Defensive Coordinators, that are at the top of their game and able to play against any team in the Nation with expectations for success, that are LDS and in good standing with the Church.

It is not possible to compete against the teams that we are trying to learn how to compete against and have the desired outcome that we wish to have, unless we take the limitations set on the coaches that they must be LDS and in good standings with the Church. This requirement is necessary, but should be in the hands of the Athletic Director, but not the coaches.

Change #2
Remember the days when Level Edwards was at his greatest, giving us a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy Winner and the reputation of being one of the elite teams in the Nation, I believe that he was getting about $80,000 per year, or $72,000 after tithing. Those days are gone forever in an era when the top-notch coaches no longer make less than $8 million per year. ( Nick Saben, Urban Myers to name a couple). Bronco Mendenhall, not in the class of the others mentioned above, still tripled his income by leaving BYU to go to the losing team of Va.

We must pay a competitive stipend to our coaches that we recruit. We must hire not the coach that will work for less, but the coach that is the best. We must be willing to pay for him, the competitive wage.

Change the mindset of hiring a defensive coordinator to be our head coach. Instead, hire the highly recruited experienced P5 head coach.
Hire that successful P5 Defensive Coordinator to be our Defensive Coordinator.

Don’t hire a great line coach to be the OC. Instead, hire him and pay him what he is worth to be our Line coach.

Don’ t hire a great QB to be our OC. Instead hire him to be our QB coach and hire an experience P5 OC in demand to be our OC.

No more on the job training. OJT has not worked for us. Try something different that has a chance of being successful.

The above is just my opinion.

I am aware that there are many that will disagree with me and tell me that in the theme of things, football is not all that important.

I am considering agreeing with them if changes are not give a trial period for expected success.

I may find somewhere else to spend my money like trips to Europe, Mexico, or elsewhere in the world.

Considering the cost of transportation, hotels, and restaurants to all of these games, a vacation trip is really not that much more expensive.

Give change, a trial period for success. Please !

I hate to say this, because it’s been said so much it becomes trite, but give this staff another year and see what happens. Honestly I think the offense looks better than I’ve seen it in 3 years. I think Wilson is the best throwing qb I’ve seen in 10 years at BYU. I expect BYU to finish at 6-6 or 7-5. Which I said they would before the first game. Lots of first year players and 1st year coaches in their relative positions equals lots of mistakes. Your suggestions are good, but probably not viable at BYU. I believe for the first time in a long time the program is taking an upturn. I’m really disappointed in the student turnout at games-hopefully they will rally around this team. Hopefully I am not wrong about this, but I believe this is a start of something good

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Sundance, I agree with you. I am pretty hard on the coaches on occasion. They do seem to be giving the recruiting effort needed to bring in athletes. Good athletes cure a lot of problems. On the other hand, lack of sound coaching decisions makes it hard to get good kids/athletes to want to come to BYU. BYU P has gotten so elitist in the academic dept that a higher percentage of “grade geeks” are attending the school. Those kids just aren’t as interested in the athletics because they are home studying. LES is harder to fill up now even with the reduction in seating … so this issue coupled with trying to excite students and fans about watching a team that loses 7 out of 10 gamesm over 2 years … and you are going to have problems in attendance. This year has been especially hard on the team and coaches because 95% of the students and 85% of
the fans and talk radio were beside themselves over the coaches not putting Wilson into the games and putting Tanner on the bench. Now, even with the recent loses … most everyone sees the talent potential of Wilson and they are thinking … is Wilson the only unlucky player on the team to be better than a named starter and not get to play?? People lost faith in the coaches over this issue. The really hard core FB people believe that the coaches knew that Wilson was a potentially higher upside QB than Tanner but didn’t want to risk it or wanted to reward Tanner for his loyalty behind Taysom. It is crazy but the coaches hurt their credibility on this one.

Just like Dave Rose hurts his credibility every time Haws plays no defense or commits dumb turnovers and isn’t put on the bench… Emery too! Rules apply to all except the chosen few!!

Losing three out of four games is not an up tick. Let’s see what happens in the next two weeks. BYU has to beat UMASS and N.Mex st. or not become bowl eleigible. Beating Utah is a mirage.

thawk: Good post, Both the BYU football and men’s basketball coaching are lagging behind their opponents and opposing coaches. Your comments about Haws and Emery are right on. Several ESPN commentators have said,
BYU football ought to" ride one or two running backs and stay with them." (i.e. “the committee” is not working)

Yep we will see! UMASS is the critical game. It’s an uptick to me because BYU is actually moving the ball-something that hasn’t happened in a couple of years. They actually look like they have an idea what they might be doing on offense. Of course maybe I’m delusional and seeing things I’m just hoping to see😅

Sundance, thank you for your reply.

I agree that the existing coaching staff will and should improve within a few years. OJT is better than nothing.]
Experienced quality coaches while being better than the OJT coaching, the cost is not acceptable unless the administration is fully committed.

I agree that Wilson is one of the better QB’s that we have had in the past 10 years, but I don’t agree that he is the best. Remember Tanner Mangum, the National Freshman QB of the year. His two memorable Hail Marry’s. His victory over Nebraska and Boise State etc. I remember Taysom Hill that is now doing good if not great in the NFL.
I am hoping for great things to come out of Wilson.

I agree with you 100% that we should finish the season 6-6 or at best 7-5. We are still learning how to play this
schedule that is more difficult than most G5 schedules, but still not as difficult as an average P5 schedule.

To me, a 6-6 finish with our current scheduling is better then the past schedules that gave us a 9-3 to 10-2 schedule. It is much easier to look like a quality team when you are playing teams ranked around 100, than it is to look like a good quality team when you are playing teams in the top 65. We look better playing New Mexico State than we look playing Washington.

I agree with you that the team and it’s commitment to Excellence is definitely on an upturn. Playing the schedule that we are now playing vs the teams we use to play, makes it hard for others to see our program as being in an upturn.

The hail Mary’s were great receptions by Mathews and I forgot the other one-s name. Essentially the QB launched the ball to a spot in the endzone and. The receivers out jump or out fought for the ball. Tanner had the ability, but was not coached up or the anxiety issues caused him to make bad decisions in pressure situations. The interception from the one yard line was a similar to Tanners career. I feel for him because projections of greatness are very hard to live up to. I believe barring injury Wilson may play at the next level as he moves so well and throws Lasers most of the time. You just don’t see that too often in true freshmen

So they blew out UMASS and NMSU and will get knocked around by Utah and end up 6-6. I call that an uptick from last year -right?

Thanks again for another reply Sundance.

I felt very bad for Tanner, being brought in the last quarter of the game vs New Mexico State, for his Senior Good bye. He wanted so much to throw a bomb, but instead he threw an interception which more or less dictated the running game from that point on. I really, really, really felt bad for his this time.

Actually if we had played Wilson from the start of the season we would have beaten Cal, NIU and BSU with the extra experience he would have gotten along the way. That would have posted us a 9-3 record which all of us would have been very happy about this year. If we did nothing else different except been able to choose the correct starting QB we would be much better off!!

I did a little research on football reference.com and checked the stats of 5 quarterbacks who made an impact as freshmen at BYU. Ty Detmer was the first in 1988. He started 1 game and bailed out Sean Covey several times and saved a few wins and was the Freedom Bowl MVP. Next freshmen to start some games was John Beck in 2003, the next was Jake Heaps who started 11 games in 2010 after Riley Nelson was injured, the next was Tanner Mangum in 2015. Tanner started 12 games after Taysom Hill went down against Nebraska. Wilson started half the games this year.

In terms of passing efficiency rating here is how they ranked for their freshman season.

  1. Wilson 140.4
  2. Detmer 138.0
  3. Mangum 136.0
  4. Heaps 116.2
  5. Beck 104.9

Wilson was also the best runner of the bunch

  1. Wilson 65 rushing attempts 198 yards
  2. Beck 54/21
  3. Detmer 32/-43
  4. Mangum 62/-85
  5. Heaps 34/-100

Beck and Detmer had great careers. Mangum and Heaps were both tabbed for greatness after their freshman seasons but fizzled. Statistically Wilson had the most impressive freshman season but wasn’t a starter the entire season like Heaps and Mangum were. Wilson still has a bowl game so we’ll see if his stats improve. In terms of overall physical tools Wilson has more than any of them.

Good points thawk:. Many of us wanted Wilson to be the starter at the beginning of this season. Mangum is a good guy, but he lost it in 2016 when he was benched and replaced by Hill. He lost his confidence.

Ah… No… Why would Grimes leave the SEC country since we was already a line coach, to come back to BYU? Even if the money was the same, there is no possible reason for the move. He is NOT LDS, so church loyalty is out the window, He coaches in the best college conference (SEC), he has contact and works with some legendary coaches.

I just don’t see why he would come to BYU to become a Line coach here? Why do you think he left in the first place?

Go back to Lavell’s early years…
His record was 7-4 (72), 5-6 (73), 7-4 (74), 6-5(75). So pretty much in the parking lot of Grimes record. Add to that, our schedule was at least 4 times harder than what Lavell faced as a new HC.

Did Grimes make mistakes? Yes, as you pointed out, he is new at OC, but then go back and look under Lavell and his OC was not that good either, Doug Scovil, learned from his mistakes and we have the glory years to see what waiting would do.

Is Grimes = Scovil? I am not sure, only time will tell. One thing I do like about Grimes is that he tries to hold his players accountable, much like Scovil did.

Also Lavell has expressed that he thought he was going to get fired every year for the first 5 or 6 years of his coaching.

Only the HC is required to be a member in good standing, the others do not… Ask anyone within ear shot of Roger French coaching, will tell you he was not a member of the church… :open_mouth:

the problem with your change #2 is that you are equating college football in those day with today… It is not the same college football.

Today’s football, Coaches are not committed to a school for long term (ask USU with Wells leaving), they like most people look for Glory with schools in the P5.

No amount of money is going to lure any good coach to BYU, for the simple fact, the school is A) independent and B) academics has been raised so high, a lot of good players can’t attend for academic reasons.

For me the changes should be:

  1. Get out of independence, go back to a conference. there is some real benefits for doing this.
  2. FIRE our current DC… he is not good, I know Kalani will not do this, because they are childhood friends.
  3. If you won’t get out of Independence, then reduce the number of P5 level games to maybe 3 or 4, get games with MWC teams like Wyoming, AF, SDSU, etc…
  4. Update facilitates.

I believe Kalani and Grimes will get the offense moving in the right direction, no matter how frustrating losing was this year, I always saw improve in the Offensive game plan. With Wilson and Kotoa (sp?) coming back, they need to get some decent WR’s

Defense is where I have my issues… Like I stated, we need a better DC.

So, why did we let Detmer go so quickly?

Are you sure? I know EQs and bishops who had colorful mouths on occasions.

Well, since the level of education around the country has gone way down over the past 40 years, raising the requirements just puts it at the same level as it was 40 years ago.