I hate to see Bartley go. I think he could have really helped and done well this coming year. He threw 2 years away. He will end up like MC.
I’m suprised about Neilsen. He’s two years from playing well. But, heat not have gotten much playing time with Austin returning and Daviies from USU. I’d rather have seen Worthington leave than Neilsen.
I hate to see Bartley go. I think he could have really helped and done well this coming year. He threw 2 years away. He will end up like MC.
Have I mentioned how much I hate lazy recruiting?
This isn’t lazy recruiting, it’s called not developing the talent you have. Nielsen had all kinds of ability and it showed in spurts when he was given the opportunity. The problem was that Worthington was given ALL of the time that Kaufusi and Nielsen could have been getting, thus preventing them to develop more than they were able to. Kaufusi came along nicely, but Nielsen never got enough time or opportunities.
Now here is the bigger problem -
They see the writing on the wall and it says - Unless you are from Lone Peak, a relative or close friend of a former player or have ties to the state of utah, don’t anticipate playing much for BYU.
I guess you could call that lazy recruiting but the example you gave didn’t fit the reasoning you provided, with the twitter thing.
My problem all season long was the overuse of Worthington early on. This is the result of those bad coaching decisions. Likewise, Bartley was misused and never got it going. They lose a ton of athleticism for next season. I hope someone else can step up and fill his shoes.
Neilsen was a project. We have some decent players next year in the post and 4 positions. In fact, the scoring will come from the paint a lot more.
KC will dominate and Fischer will be much better. As I understand, the guards will be excellent too but inexperienced. That’s where Bartley would have really helped.
Apparently Bartley asked for a transfer, Neilson was “Asked” to transfer…
Interesting things going on…
I don’t see how it benefits Bartley. He will have only one more year to play after he sits out a year. He probably sees that the offense is going to be run more inside out with 4’s and 5’s that can score.
Neilsen is still a head scratcher. Why would Rose give up on a possible 4 man that can shoot? I know he wanted him to be more of a back to the basket player but he’s not. And, Austin is more likely to re-injur his hamstring. Why would Rose chase him off?
Actually I think he has two years left, because he only a sophomore and I don’t think has redshirted.
He could end up at UVU with Pope, which would make sense for Bartley.
The reason they gave for the transfer was because of the number of players that play the same position coming in over the next two years and Bartley probably felt he could not crack the rotation.
Neilson was told he needed to be transfer by coach Rose… http://www.sltrib.com/blogs/byusports/2427072-155/byu-basketball-neilson-shocked-that-he
So I have to ask you Scott… why is it not ok for a player to leave BYU after he gives his word to play for them (ie your comments about Austin Collie) but it is ok for a coach to back out on his word to the player?
Bartley has two years left at BYU. But, if he transfers, he has to sit out his Junior Year. Thus, he only has his Senior year left. He may be looking at the possible competition to play at BYU. But, he has experience, athleticism and can shoot too over the current players. Instead of working harder and develop his talent, he wants to be able to cruise at his current level of play at UVU? That’s his plan? Of course, if it is also the scholarship he may be losing, then that’s different. But, I don’t think I’ve heard that he’s losing it. He’s just not competitive enough.
Neilson is different. Rose suggested that he look elsewhere. That suggests they didn’t see eye to eye on his role on the team. And, that Neilson isn’t willing to work hard as a post player. And, that is what Rose needs to back up Kaufusi. However, I think, with Austin’s injury, that he needs someone to also back up the transfer from USU, Davis. Neilson could have done that. To have a 6’10" player that can pop out and shoot the 3 ball, what a weapon!!! That’s a head scratcher.
Now, as to your Collie question. Collie did everything the coach asked of him and more. From what I’m gathering, Neilson is not willing. Rose did keep his end of the deal but Neilson is not. Nothing says one cannot fire someone for poor work performance. Unless they work for a government That’s the difference…The coach did everything he said he would for Collie. Collie didn’t honor the 4 year commitment. Rose did everything he said he would do but Neilson didn’t. Fired!!!
This post has so many things wrong with it that I don’t know where to begin.
But I can always try -
- Bartley doesn’t “sit out” and lose a year. If you sit, you just use the eligibility year later. If he has played 2 years then he has 2 left, regardless of when he plays them.
- Rose didn’t see eye to eye with Nielsen? Can somebody please explain to me what eye of Rose’ was looking at Worthington’s eye? And what about saying Nielsen isn’t willing to work hard as a post player? At least you acknowledged it is a head scratcher. I’ve been scratching my head so much lately that I’m losing more hair.
- I don’t understand your reasoning for Nielsen being “fired”. This kind of stuff is nonsense. I don’t get some of the decisions the BYU coaching staff makes sometimes.
Floyd, thanks for linking the article in the Tribune. I can handle Jay Drew stuff and I must say I am VERY disappointed that Rose chose to tell Nielson to leave. Just more California bias as much as anything.
I guess some things never change.
I’m sure this will really help the recruiting in the future… getting rid of two experienced, out of state players with loads of potential. Maybe Rose thought BYU needed another shooting guard that can’t play defense. I don’t agree with KC very often but the recruiting thing just got more lazy.
Well… all you Lone Peak lovers enjoy the next five years of one and done ncaa tournament bids and 25 win seasons against the likes of LMU and Santa Clara (would have included Pepperdine here but can’t).
The utah valley bubble just got a little more insulated from the outside world… Provo…
Jim: This post has so many things wrong with it that I don’t know where to begin. But I can always try -
SG: Not really.
Jim: Bartley doesn’t “sit out” and lose a year. If you sit, you just use the eligibility year later. If he has played 2 years then he has 2 left, regardless of when he plays them.
SG: Correct, unless you have used your redshirt year.
Jim: Rose didn’t see eye to eye with Nielsen? Can somebody please explain to me what eye of Rose’ was looking at Worthington’s eye? And what about saying Nielsen isn’t willing to work hard as a post player? At least you acknowledged it is a head scratcher. I’ve been scratching my head so much lately that I’m losing more hair.
SG: Rose wanted him to be 5 post player and Neilson wasn’t progressing. He wanted to play more like a 4 man stepping out and shooting 3’s. I think that was a good potential thing for the team. Davis will need a back up that can do just that. On Cougar Nation today and yesterday, they were talking about this and that is what happened.
As far as Worthington, we were all saying the same thing. Rose didn’t have to “fire” him because he had not gone on a mission. See what happens when he gets back.
Jim: I don’t understand your reasoning for Nielsen being “fired”. This kind of stuff is nonsense. I don’t get some of the decisions the BYU coaching staff makes sometimes.
SG: Not nonsense. The scholarship is money! They do get paid for playing if they are on scholarship. Rose told him his services weren’t needed anymore and to find somewhere else to shoot the 3’s. Rose brought him in thinking he could develop into a post player. But, it didn’t happen. What we don’t know is the inside information on all the players on missions, playing and who want to play at BYU over the next several years. Rose does. And, he’s developed his system and he has to have enough players in each position to play the system. There must be someone coming in that is better than Neilson and Bartley that can fill the system’s needs.
We don’t really know that. I didn’t like to see either one go because of their experience. Bartley also had talent and could play defense. He could have helped next year. I’m not so sure about Neilson. It didn’t sound like he was coachable enough for Rose. That is kind of important!!!
The future starting to look a little shaky but more so for 2015/16. That article on Dave Rose Turnover was spot on. I was surprised Bartley chose to leave (I wanted him to stay). His minutes would of grow if he starts to cut back his turn overs. As for Nielsen for not wanting to to play more inside game, then Dave Rose has every reason to go after other guys like CK and if healthy 8’s and Nate. Very little experience for this year to most players is a little worrisome. Could Kyle C. tempt to move on because what he saw going on at the Y which would be a mistake. And as for LP boys and possible new hire LP Quincy Lewis would satisfy my liking and hoping that Destrup stick with his plan to come at the Y.
I don’t see anything shakey for the future. In 2 years, Mika and the Lone Peak hotshots are back. Looks good from here! KC doesn’t go this year. Too slow and no midrange shot. He needs a 3 shot too for the NBA.
It also depends “Where” he transfer… because if he goes down one level, he looses nothing…
I am not one of those guys that says that Lone Peak players are going to be the next coming of the Danny Anige era…
However, I do know that these Lone Peak Players that was recruited was highly recruited by schools such as Duke, Kentucky, Oregon, etc…
so I don’t think they are as bad as you think they are Jim…
Their coach has taken this group of kids and played a lot of the big name High School teams (like Jabari team in Chicago) and beat them. That is why they won the mythical High School Championship the year that Mica, Haws, Emery all were seniors.
They are really good ball players Jim, but like most things in life, that may or may not mean they will be good College players…
One thing that I must admit, I am not a big Dave Rose fan, he is a good coach, but honestly, I am not sure his “style” of offense will win many tournament games. That is my opinion, I may be wrong, but I watched a few games this year and that was the impression I got was that Rose was reliving his glory years at Houston with the run and gun offense.
SG: Rose wanted him to be 5 post player and Neilson wasn’t progressing. He wanted to play more like a 4 man stepping out and shooting 3’s. I think that was a good potential thing for the team. Davis will need a back up that can do just that. On Cougar Nation today and yesterday, they were talking about this and that is what happened. As far as Worthington, we were all saying the same thing. Rose didn’t have to “fire” him because he had not gone on a mission. See what happens when he gets back.
Floyd: Scott, I think this is where the rub comes in… Neilson commented that he realized he needed to be stronger, working with the weight coach, gaining muscle, etc… he vowed to work harder than Kaufusi and Austin to get to where he needed to be. He was doing that when Rose called him into his office.
So I am not sure “why” you think Nielson was not progressing…
As for what you “Think” Rose reasoning is nothing more than conjecture.
This is all opinion including yours. Hopefully we will all know soon enough why these two were not on Rose keep list.
I can’t say that I agree with you on Bartley. I believe he is doing what is best for him - and likely just fine for BYU. With the guys we have coming in the next several years, Bartley would possibly play a bit for this season but his senior year would be a real problem for him. Let’s be honest here, Bartley has great athletic ability and that leads to spurts of fun to watch stuff, but he has some serious weaknesses in his overall play, particularly in ball handling skills and overall court vision. Not the best set of hands either as he fumbles away too many routine balls.
I believe Rose would have liked to have him for this coming season but the following one would have been a problem for both coach and player. So Bartley is smart to move on now so that he can play several years somewhere, and BYU get’s a scholarship to hopefully find a more consistent backup.
Neilson I understand completely. A major project as at 6"10" he was basically a perimeter guy and looking ahead, BYU will not need any more perimeter players but some more bulk/power on the inside. Neilson was never going to fit that mold (and bye the way, neither will Luke ever do that, and he can’t even play outside) and so why continue to have him take up a spot on the roster that will never fill a need for the team. Better for BYU and really better for Neilson to just be honest and upfront and get this done now and save a spot for what I hope will be a 6"10 - 7’ guy who can get some stuff done inside, along with Mika when he returns and Kafusi.
Our team for the next 3 - 4 years will be extremely up tempo, and that doesn’t work if you don’t control the boards on defense and you can’t bang a bit inside on offense so that nobody can cheat out on defense against them. So I would guess that Rose is looking for a guy or two who can get 10 and 10 a night inside.
Those 10 and 10 a night guys aren’t out there in droves. If you don’t count KC, did anybody else come close to that? I guess Kaufusi showed some promise that he might be able to do that but Mika is really the only one that comes to mind.
My point is that you can’t just go out and “get” those kinds of players, particularly for a team that runs up and down the floor and plays incredibly poor defense at times.
I wonder if Rose told Andrus he needed to leave as well? I think a big man that plays with his back against the basket is more effective if he has a 15 foot shot that he can knock down on occasion. Also, I thought Nielson showed some promise and was effective inside at times. I don’t remember exactly which game it was but BYU was in a tight one and Nielson hadn’t played at all but he came into the game and made some key plays, scored some points and really was a difference maker.
I guess I just don’t understand some of the decisions the coaches make. I don’t really think they know what they are doing sometimes… and please everyone, spare us the “20 win seasons, ncaa tourney appearances, everything is good” comments. BYU is in a position to make that happen every year without much effort.