He didn’t say anything about temple admission. I took his meaning to be inclusion in family things.
I kind of hope we stay independent. This gutted Big12 is probably going to be like the Big East: a former P5 conference that is looked down on after the round of musical chairs. Basketball and other sports, it’s an upgrade from WCC.
With the fury last time over BYU and gay issues (Iowa St., et al), it would be very surprising to see such a change of heart only three years later. What a difference OK and Texas leaving makes!
Washington lost to Montana!
If BYU gets an invite to the B12 we need to go. The money, competition and exposure is worth it. If things change down the road then we will be in a much better spot to join an even bigger league or configuration. In the meantime, we will get better recruits and we can afford to go hire a legit DC. Just the extra income will make a big deal for our quality of assistant coaches. If the B-12 didn’t have to share their money we would have made it in last time regardless of the LBGTQ out cry. I bet all that is over looked this time and BYU will be invited and accept. They need us and we need them.
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Fish has been here a long time and we know him and what he’s thinking. And, it’s okay for him to have his opinions. But, it’s okay for the rest of us as well. So, I ask questions when he does this. And the last time I looked, the Temple is all about family.
According to information leaked, they will admit BYU because of the money and what BYU brings for the league.
Agreed…The talk is we will be invited
Big 12 presidents reportedly on track to add BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston - Deseret News
BYU Cougars: Why BYU should jump at a Big 12 invite if it comes - Deseret News
From a $$ and a scheduling standpoint, this is a no brainer. BYU needs to be in a conference in both football and basketball. the WCC can keep our Olympic sports or not.
Amen!
I don’t see it that way…These four invites are big TV markets for Football. BYU is big time from coast to coast. The Houston market and it’s live or die Texas HS football will replace Tx to a fair extent. OkSt is rock solid, same with Iowa. The Big East was built around basketball. The CPS is 100% football so I don’t see the Big 12 being anything like the Big 12. But the Big 12 needs to get proactive as in hiring someone like the P12 just did and get into the streaming business real quick.
Two big factors in these invites are…timing, when will OK and Tx really leave the Big 12? When do the new teams get added? For the other 3, UCF, Houston and Cinn, have major buy outs while BYU is available today. How do they share the $$.
2- will they have a graduated $ scale as was the case for Colo and Utah going into the P12?
I believe the invite is a done deal, they are just hammering out the details, as in “how they can squeeze every last dime out of the deal for themselves”
Here is a simple breakdown of what I am referring to
Big 12 expansion: League to meet about offering BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF membership - CBSSports.com
If OK and Tx leave early, they have to pay the Big 12 …80 million to soften the blow.
All ACC teams have to play a 10 million exit fee but expect to make 20 million in the Big 12…they currently make 7 million.
Exciting week
a break down of each team and what they bring
Weighing pros, cons of conference expansion for Big 12 contenders - Sports Illustrated
I heard today that we go in to the Big 12 in 2023. And, we would be in the #1 conference in basketball. The other sports will need to do what’s best for them. I think track plays on Sundays. Baseball as well. See if the Big 12 will work around BYU’s no play on Sunday rule. I think they will. So will Basketball. Heck, the MWC did.
My view of the potential invite has changed. At first I was like Rubicon. Let’s stay independent and keep playing P5s all over the country. We’re getting home and homes with the likes of USC, Tennessee. We’re hosting Texas and UCLA and Stanford, etc. Who’s left that matters in the Big 12 after you take out OU and TX? OK St and TCU, and even Baylor and WV, have had solid (but not great) programs for years (though Baylor has been up and down for decades and is still recovering from one of the nastiest scandals ever. TTU has likewise been up and down. K St was good until their great coach retired, but even then they were not a dominant team or a major national draw. Iowa State is probably more highly rated right now than they have ever been, and there haven’t been a lot of highly rated years in the past. And then there is Kansas. There is no long term glory, major national draw football team left, like an Ohio State, Oregon, or even Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State, USC, Stanford, or the now long dormant UCLA. Those are names and storied places to play despite some of them having their ups and downs. There is no “storied” program left in the Big 12. You could make an argument that BYU joining the Big 12 gives them a bigger national draw than any of the “Leftover 8”. What is the future of a conference where BYU is the headliner? It hasn’t been enough in the past (WAC, MW). But I have changed my mind. I’m becoming more and more enthusiastic about it.
Here’s why.
Without TX and OU, you could make an argument that the Big12 leftovers are no better than and maybe not as good as the AAC, which has multiple strong programs that have beaten P5s, made New Years 6 bowls, been ranked and created momentum for the argument that the AAC was ready for Power status in some quarters. Overall, there are 6 or 7 non-P5 programs out there that raise the argument that they are P-5 like programs over several years. They seem to be competing relatively well against P5s and getting highly ranked without being in P5 conferences. They are BYU, Houston, UCF, Cincinnati, Boise State, Memphis and Coastal Carolina (although CCU is a newby with a relatively short track record). By adding 4 of the 7 (incidentally the 4 that bring the biggest TV markets, TV ratings, fan draws, etc.) the Big 12 is actually improving its revenue base over the Leftover 8 alone, while simultaneously vastly widening the gap between itself and the AAC. At the same time it is bringing in schools that have the potential to increase their own fan and revenue bases by being in a conference that qualifies as P5, even if diluted, because of access to NY6 games and the playoffs, etc. By that I mean that, for example, BYU was a bigger draw on “night” games on lesser networks and streaming services than any school in the conference over the past several years - while simultaneously not performing at its historical best and not having any real relevance to games it was not playing in. How many BYU fans watched OKST v TTU during those years? How many will watch that game when BYU is affected by the outcome? How many OKST and TTU fans watched any BYU games in the past? How many will tune in to BYU v. Utah or Boise State (even as non-conference games) when BYU is in their conference? (not to mention BYU v conference members other than their schools. TV ratings will increase. That doesn’t even count the folks from other P5s that will tune in when games can affect bowl invitations.
So, I think the Big 12 is making the right move with the right schools to save its P5 status, cripple and widen the gap with its potential competitor (AAC), and provide a path for future growth as schools that have been on the outside but have big fan bases or potential fan bases (UCF) grow in stature.
Also, it gets BYU into the Inner Circle before all the potential realignment and drama happens with the next round of tv negotiations and gives us a chance to make the honor code and accompanying political issues “old news” at the P5 level. Reading the comments by Mike Gundy and the Iowa State AD today, my take is that the athletic people wanted BYU last time around, but some of the political people (presidents) were afraid of their “progressive” images. They knew BYU would help the conference but felt they could keep the possibility alive without risking image damage by deciding not to expand. They couldn’t justify inviting others without the one school that, as Barry Tramel has said, is “a no brainer” and essentially burning that bridge for the future and/or raising questions of religious discrimination in a conference already including religious schools. When TX and OU announced their leaving, BYU helping the conference quickly turned into BYU being an essential part of saving the conference. It is better to be needed than merely tolerated.
It improves our recruiting profile to have multiple opportunities for bigger bowl games, etc. I think there will be LDS kids (not all by any means, but some), for example, who will be more likely to choose BYU over Utah, Oregon State, Stanford, etc.
AND, if by some chance the Big 12 does fail, we already know the path to survival as an independent if we need it.
Finally, the Big 12 even with the new schools, will be a league we can be or quickly become very competitive in.
And then there is basketball! Multi-bid league, big arenas, and “storied” programs!
Okay, here is my secret dream. We get into the Big 12 before TX and OU leaves. We maintain our near spotless record against those two schools (the only football program to have overall lifetime winning records against both of them) and win the Big 12 before they go. Where does that scenario lead?
Like I said. Dream.
The noise is we go in 2023. Not next year. Big 12 basketball is the number one league already…
There was a lot of chatter over the weekend about 2022; but. as you point out, yesterday and today the talk has reverted to 2023. Still, a 2022 schedule that includes the Big 12 teams, BSU, and Notre Dame would be fantastic.
I mention BSU because I’ve promised my 10 year old daughter that I would take her to a BYU game and the 2022 game in Boise sounds like the best bet.
not to mention, ease of scheduling!!! With BYU having guaranteed home and home games in the Big 12, Holmoe would only have to worry about 3 games. Two of those could be Utah and USU. No brainers easy.
Point #2, We would have the $$ to keep Pope around and as THawk points out, retain some better Coaches for football
I think if it was just BYU being invited, then Rubicon may have some justification, but UCF, Cincinnati and Houston are no slouch teams. They play very competitive games with some of the SEC powerhouses.
I think if they invite all 4 schools and the schools accept, I think the Big12 may be better conference than some are giving it credit for.
I’ve heard some national commentators say that the revamped Big 12 would be on par with the ACC and ahead of the Pac 12…and, of course, number one in Basketball.
No way, those National commentators got ahead of themselves. With the loss of Tx/Ok, the big 12 has by far the weakest TV market by a mile. (or should I say Streaming market). Just the same, It is TV contracts that dictate revenue. The big 12 will fall from 37 million per school to around 20 M.
Here’s how much each Power 5 conference made last year - Footballscoop
Below is a truer breakdown of just where the big 12 lands after alignment.
So yes, there is a lot of chatter that the big 12 could lose P5 status, the AAC, Big 10 and P12 signed a play each other agreement to stave off and more Sec raiding but they did not include the Big 12 (note)
But reality is that the Big 12 is not going to lose P5 status. Much more to come in the next few days but as of Today, BYU is a member of the Big 12, voting is a formality.
Big 12 it is official. Now BYU is powerful just like Alabama Texas USC and even Utah.
Then what will happen when 2024 or 2025 with the possibility major realignment when four or six Little 8 group leave to other more powerful conference?
And finally bye-bye WCC!!!