BYU 2017, are we better than last year?

Granted we have only seen a few games but here is my take.

Last year we had LP3+Childs. Mika was our most consistent player with a 20 ppg average and close to 10 rpg. Emery had regressed (now we know there was a whole lot of off court junk going on with this kid) and Haws was a all WCC solection. (hard for me to accept because he does not bother with any form of defense). Childs was raw, basically a cleanup goy. We had Sr. Kyle Davis and emerging star, Bryant, go down with injuries. TJ Rose was our point, also oft injured.

This year Childs is the man, Dastrup has lost 60 pounds and starting to show glimpses of why we recruited him. Worthington is vastly improved, Andrus injured, Nixon is raw but strong. Are we better down low? Yes and no, Mika was a talent but in my opinion Dave Rose missused him by running an “Inside/Out” gmae rather than a “High Pic and Roll” game. It made us predictable, easy to defend. Now we run a drive and dish offense with Hardnett, Bryant or Haws capable of penetrating…very hard to defend. Our points are certainly not coming from a dominate center but BYU is capable down low to rebound and get put backs.

Last year we cringed everytime Davis or Childs headed to the FT line, this year, BYU is among the top % in the country.
This year BYU will be much more balanced in terms of point production.
Childs will get us 15 a game.
Haws…14 a game
Seljaas…9 a game
Hardnett…8 a game
Bryant…14-20 a game
Dastrup…6 a game
Worthington…6 a game.
Nixon…6 a game
With Heath Shroyer coaching, we won’t need to hit 100/game in order to stay in games.
Emery was our lock down guy (if you want to call anyone that from last year…sad, I know) Hardnett looks to me to be a guy that can take on other teams star guards and the WCC is full of them.
Seljaas is long and Haws is still rail thing and not a factor on defense. Bryant can play either the small forward or defend a quick guard. By the way, Bryant is a star. Childs is a load.
Are we better this year. I think so just because we have better guards and some defense.

UVU is a 60% advantage with a rpi rating of 19th nationally…where do they get this stuff.

RPI is still way too early to be any value. UVU has a high RPI because of the “tough” schedule they played–they’ve played teams with lots of wins. BYU not so much. In fact just playing, BYU win or lose, brings their current RPI down. Unless they smoke the WAC though BYU’s RPI should help shore theirs up by the end of the year.

The team defense is worse this year.
Three point defense is worse
Two point defense is worse
Offense rebounding is worse
Defensive rebounding is worse.

The team offense is worse this year.
Three point shooting is worse–though how much of this is a TJ slump?
Two point shooting is worse–though it looks like it might improve.
Turnovers are worse.

The team is tougher this year…it is improving.
The next few games are all toss-ups. Last year they wouldn’t have been. Though with the mindset of that team they might have lost just as many as this team.

Last year’s team went 9-4 out of conference. This team will have improved shockingly if they get to that record…the easiest part of the OOC is finished except for the two gimme’s right before conference starts.

Not sure about where you get the “worst” list from. The defense is better in my opinion and we are doing well with rebounding, assists and foul shooting too.

How much of this is due to a different strategy and the addition of a new Asso Head Coach Shroyer?
Last year BYU went 22-12, 12-6 in conference.

Right now I see 9 games that BYU could easily lose and we would be right on track with last year’s team. BYU could also win any and all of those game. We’ll see

I was only comparing tempo free stats…so strategy shouldn’t matter much…
As to Schroyer…that the team is doing things so much differently is because Rose chose to go with Schroyers suggestion…much more Steve Clevelandish than the joy of the early Dave Rose years. I would attribute the worsened stats to an adjustment period…the toughness the team has exhibited is impressive and a marked improvement.

I just prefer Stan Watts/Dave Rose offense to set half courts…defensive toughness doesn’t require a staid offense. a top 10 tempo team to a bottom third tempo team is remarkable. and truly back to the Steve Cleveland era tempo…nothing against Cleve he mostly won and he brought in Dave Rose…if we could have Rose’s offense with Cleve’s defense the team would be back to the early Dave Rose years, which in my lifetime has been the best it’s eve been for BYU bball.

Agree with most everything you say. I haven’t seen a lot yet this year, but like Hartnett’s quickness, strength and effort. For a little guy he sticks his nose in there and says, “I’ll stop you.” Last year our guards were like, “Hey, would you hurry up and score so I can go shoot again.”

Mika was TGTBT (too good to be true). Generational talent by BYU standards. Childs is good and is tough, but can’t take guys facing the basket the way Mika could. Holy smokes he was good when he’d turn and face…not sure what I think about Haws…sooooo skinny and just looks like he doesn’t even try on D…Bryant? Big, tough, strong and finishes at the rack…hey, that’s Big Russia, no??

Ya well, did this year’s team lose to UVU?

Most complete game I’ve seen BYU play since the WCC era began…it wasn’t against a top notch team, just UVU…so how much of it was revenge? will the team choose to make that their floor instead of their ceiling…time will tell but the last three games have been remarkably better…is it a coincidence that Hardnett began starting 3 games ago???

So after watching a game like the UVU game do you still feel the same way about BYU basketball because I saw something I haven’t seen in years

I thought it was a solid game. All around as you said. Basically halved their point total from last year, not accounting for the pace of course.

I actually like the offense this year and that surprises me. I thought BYU needed to be up and down to compete. Now I think we can be effective without it. Honestly, do what St Marys does but try to out recruit them with even better bigs who can shoot from distance like Yo and Payton.

Honestly, I find myself a lot less frustrated lately with this team. Even in the losses.

I’m afraid to hope.

Defense has been better too. It’s still early but we have played well in away games too. Utah state game will be a good opportunity to see what we will do in tough away games like Pepperdine, who we should beat.

So this is what I said we should expect out our guys point wise…
Childs will get us 15 a game.
Haws…14 a game
Seljaas…9 a game
Hardnett…8 a game
Bryant…14-20 a game
Dastrup…6 a game
Worthington…6 a game.
Nixon…6 a game

Here is what we got out of the UVU game…


Everyone pretty well followed the script except Childs was far better and Bryant/Dastrup were below expectations. (Bryant made up his point production by filling out 4 assists and 9 rebs, while Dastrup was just not used). The only other exception was Cannon, did not know about him but it appears he is a Weber St transfer and can ‘ball’, makes BYU a better team.

Last year UVU set a new Marrriot record for made 3s…this year, even after Pope’s motivational speeches, UVU still could get an open look at 3. I see Heath’s fingerprint all over this team and they are hardly the same ol Rose teams that put up 100 and still got beat. Its called Defense and its 50% of the game. Most change I have seen out of a BYU team in one year…ever

1 Like

Haws is no longer “the man” out there. Never was the man, worst thing that could have ever happened was him getting selected to the WCC 1st team as a freshman. You just don’t reward players who don’t play a lick of defense. For the life of me, I can’t understand why a kid shows up with the same body year after year when they play D1 ball and everyone else is hitting the weights.
Bryant is the star.

To hold UVU to 58 total points, at home, was a statement to everyone in the WCC and the NCAA…BYU has a new look with a new coach in town. USU and the Utah game will tell us if BYU has turned away from run and gun to a viable team.

This team playing defense has been like Christmas come early. They’ll have to work on it all year and they’ll get burned by dumb mistakes but if they can imitate what St. Mary’s does on both sides I think we could take a step up in the conference.

And the fact that it would drive St. Marys nuts because we copied them is just a bonus.

I disagree. I think he tries hard on D up to a point, though he’s not very good. He gets frustrated when shots don’t fall and then his defense dies. He needs to learn to control that. We just need to ask less of him on defense by sticking him in the corner on spot-up shooters as much as possible. Also, take charges man. On offense, TJ is the piece that takes the most ‘fitting’ but he can be a volume shooter for us if we can figure it out. I like the idea of running him off of double screens off the ball for catch and shoot wing threes or reversing screens over and over again until his defender hates himself. We really need to find ways to trick his defender into leaving him open in the corner. What do you think of his release? How quick is his shot? He pump fakes a lot of those corner three close-outs.

I’ve never liked hero ball or if you prefer, star-centric play. I’m a longtime spurs fan and I love teams that pass. If we can get 12 to 15 from TJ on good shooting with 5 and 5 and a steal or two…that’s a winning component.

Clausewitz, you know you can left click to highlight part or all of someone’s post and it will appear as a “quote”. Click on it and it makes our conversations easy to follow.

Haws is stealin’ church money by not hitting the weights. You and I are saying the very same thing, Rose has to put him on a corner shooter because the kid can’t stay in front of a point or any driver.

Point taken. Thanks for the tip.

You’re right. Even if he was just marginally better it could make all the difference. I want to know if it’s mentality too with him. He seems fast enough on offense, though I don’t know about his ability to move side to side on defense.

Defensive strafing has to be the least appreciated fundamental in basketball. That never gets on sportscenter

Stealing church money? That’s just over the top. Is he hurting himself and the team by not bulking up like you think? Do you know if he’s not following the strength coaches program? He’s wirey but he has put on muscle. Byrant could get more defined too and I think both will. But stealing money?

He’s 6-6 guarding 6-0 quick guards. I think he needs to and should be a 3 swing man. His defense will need to be masked with great team defense like last night. I’m okay with that.

Haws shooting could get better by setting up closer to the basket. He’s taking too many Jimmer shots. He’s leaning in on the 3’s instead of keeping his feet directly under him because he’s too far out. Also, pass the ball until someone has a wide open shot and he will get the ball eventually closer in.

Nick Cannon looks like he could replace Emery. If Haws continues to struggle, if Emery comes back, I can see him replacing Haws. We could be deep at all positions. The other guards are getting better too.

Both Worthington and Dastrup got into quick foul trouble and ended up playing 4 or 5 minutes. I thought the refs early on were horrible and biased. Childs played well against a big center.

Hardnett and Cannon will be able to play the point. Hopefully Haws can stay at the wing. Shorter 3’s. And, Bryant didn’t have to do everything. That will help prevent injuries.


Do you or anybody else know if Shaw or Andrus, or both, will play this year? I would like to see one more big man for depth purposes. I think the guard line is deep enough now with the addition of Cannon.