Once these conferences got their wits about them, they realized that they have to play 3 more games against BCS teams. The ACC is the latest to make an about face…
BSU, BYU would be in the middle of the pack in any of the P5 conferences.
Well, I preferred to hear it from John Swofford say it himself unless there is a link directly from him and the ACC. This source was from ESPN Brett McMurphy, not from ACC. Anyone? But, BYU still not in the mix in this playoff formula which I am not being negative but it might put BYU in one of the P5 league if get called.
Now I like to hear it from other four P5 (SEC too).
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Unfortunately, BYU is a mid-major FB program. Both our independent status (non-P5) and performance on the field of play over the past 4 years puts us squarely in the mid-major category. Do we have the resources to play in a P5 conference, definitely I think. However, aside from our resources, our performance has to rise above where we have been for the past 3 to 4 years. I think 2015 will prove to be a pivotal season for Bronco. Despite, or in spite of, any excuses (including injuries), if the Y does not have a stellar season I believe Bronco leaves of his own accord or will be let go.
Agreed on Bronco. He has to deliver or be let go. Jason Buck went off on him about how Bronco has little association with the Alumni.
some of the sour grapes may be due to the fact that Jason Buck was trying to sell his kid to byu and Bronco didn’t even return his phone call.
he was fittingly named, that’s for true. Bronco is stubborn as a mule.
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Fish,
It is my opinion, that we can not argue our way into a P5 conference. We must earn our way.
TCU and Utah earned their way with the BCS Bowls and strength of schedule.
Our accomplishments of 24 - 30 years ago does not cut it anymore. In, the College Football World, it is
“What have you done for me lately.”
Yes we have constantly improved in all areas, but we have not improved as much as our peer group i.e.
TCU, Utah, Boise State, Hawaii, and Houston, all of which improved enough to get at least one BCS bowl which we were unable to do.
TCU and Utah improved enough to be invited to a P5 conference. We were not. While in the Pac 12, playing 9 other P5 teams, the Utes were able to finish the season nationally ranked. We were not.
We must stop all the silly talk about not getting into a Pr conference because of “No Sunday Play, “Honor Code”, “Church Bias” “Politics” etc. We must face facts. All the talk in the world without the actions to back it up is just disgusting talk to a significant number of football decision makers.
If we want to be accepted as a true Independent P5 team, we must act like a P5 team.
We must schedule as many P5 teams each season as other P5 teams must schedule.
If it is no longer acceptable, post 2014 (play off) season, to schedule FCS teams so we must not schedule FCS teams.
I know, I know, it is always somebodies else’s fault. I know that we must do what we are told to get a certain team to play us. Ya, ya, ya. Bla, bla bla!!!-------Just say NO !!! --------- It is a trap !!! --------Playing an FCS teams take away any remote possibility of being accepted as a team at large for the play offs. It keeps us in our place as a team acting like a mid major that no P5 team is now allowed to do. JUST SAY NO !!!
If we act, with our actions, and not our mouths, which sometimes is offensive to others, like a P5 team, we will naturally be considered a P5 team. If we demand on taking shortcuts, we will never be anything but an undeserving wannabe team. That is not us. We are better than that,.
We must go through the necessary hard painful growing pains in order to grow.
Here is the bottom line, BYU will be invited to a P5 conference if and when they start to force the P5 to give up some of their money. If BYU gets into the playoffs or regularly starts to take one of the major bowl spots, there will be pressure for either the PAC 2+10 or the Big 12-2 to add BYU. I know that the general consensus is that the PAC will never add BYU. They will if there is enough pressure.
But we will not get into any P-5 conference. We don’t generate enough money and their teams don’t want to play in Provo. Not our fault, it is all about greed and $$$$$.
Roy: I agree, our over all performance against P-5’s in the Bronco era is mid-major or less, except for maybe Texas.
I doubt seriously if BYU will ever fire Bronco. He is too Bishop like, the BOD’s love him, a good LDS guy. But the BOD isn’t putting their money where their collective mouth’s are. They are happy in SLC, theyv’e got P-5 PAC-12 ball at the U up there. Too bad for BYU, I don’t think that Provo can be translated to another location. If it is, then it wouldn’t be BYU and its uniqueness.
Ron: So what are the “growing pains?” Please explain them. We won’t win the majority of our P-5 games on the road. Boise St. and even Utah did it by playing in the WAC and the MWC and winning a few P-5 games, mostly on the road. But BYU is not going to win out there against P-5’s consistently, on the road, with this cast of coaches. I agree,“acting like a P-5” takes BYU out of our uniqueness.So if we do that, we are not BYU.
RC: Good post. How does BYU “force” the P-5’s to give up some of their money? I would love to see it, but I doubt that BYU has the coaching to make the playoffs.maybe we can make it to a New Year’s Six bowl, that’s our limit from what I see here with Bronco and company. hen maybe the P-5 will pay some attention. I still believe that it is a very long shot in my estimation, at least with this cast of coaches.
Txcoug
"So what are the “growing pains?” Please explain them”
Growing Pains: (Long term goals, vs. Short term goals)
Long term goals: Become a respected P5 team, Independent or otherwise” that has the full respect of every P5 team like ND and P5 teams in all the P5 conferences.
Short term goals: Do what ever is necessary, including all the growing pains that it will take, for us to achieve our Long term goal.
What are those growing pains:
-
Playing 9 P5 teams the first couple seasons will probably mean that we will suffer a degree of humiliation
of 6-6 seasons instead of 10-2 seasons. (Temporary set back 2-3 seasons) -
Filing LES will be a nightmare. We will be lucky to get 2-3 P5 teams out of the 9 that we play,
to come to LES. The rest of the home games will be the mid major teams that people will not want to
make the effort to see. (temporary setback 2-3 seasons) -
With the comparable week schedule at LES compared to the tough exciting schedule on the road, more
people will travel to those exciting away games, but less people will be coming to LES. (Financial Loss/
Investment) (temporary 2-3 seasons) -
We will have a certain percentage of fans that will want to keep winning 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 seasons even if it
means playing all FCS teams or bottom of the barrel Mid major teams. These fans will not want to lose at
all cost and do not understand the consequences. These fans could hurt us from reaching our goal.
Example: The Utes: Had almost no P5 teams come to Salt Lake until them became a P5 team. Now 1/2 of their P5 games are at Salt Lake. Utes had a hard terrible first two seasons as a P5 team. They adjusted until last season they became a respected P5 team in the Pac 12 and finished the season nationally ranked.
They paid the price. The earned it. They went through all the growing pains that now, we must go through,
unless we just give us and say that we really are not as good as Utah and TCU that made it big as a P5 team.
TCU finished in the top 5 last season in the Big 12.
Txcoug
"So what are the “growing pains?” Please explain them”
Growing Pains: (Long term goals, vs. Short term goals)
Long term goals: Become a respected P5 team, Independent or otherwise” that has the full respect of every P5 team like ND and P5 teams in all the P5 conferences. No matter how you want to fantasize it we cannot force other CF teams to respect us. Do you seriously think everyone respects ND, Ohio State, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia or any other of the top teams. Is there fear, get out of their way thinking, kiss their feet behavior - YES. But full respect, yes by some but not by everyone. We can work toward TRYING to build the program up but forcing is not going to happen.
Short term goals: Do what ever is necessary, including all the growing pains that it will take, for us to achieve our Long term goal. There are way too many INTERNAL and EXTERNAL issues, concerns, power players (BOT overall and possible factions, BYU administration and possible factions, folks over the AD, the AD and possible factions there, Bronco and his coaches with possible factions even there, factions within the fan base), greed, indifference, dislike / hate. And then there are a myriad of external problems / blocks to deal with. Doing the best that can be done is different than doing whatever is necessary (do we go against our own moral compass - play on Sunday, threaten folks, bribe, step on necks; all of which and more may be necessary. We may have long term goals which may be in opposition to many other richer, more powerful individuals or groups.
What are those growing pains:
1.Playing 9 P5 teams the first couple seasons will probably mean that we will suffer a degree of humiliation
of 6-6 seasons instead of 10-2 seasons. (Temporary set back 2-3 seasons). Could also be 1, 2, 3 or 4 win seasons for several years. Would that be acceptable?
2.Filing LES will be a nightmare. We will be lucky to get 2-3 P5 teams out of the 9 that we play,
to come to LES. The rest of the home games will be the mid major teams that people will not want to
make the effort to see. (temporary setback 2-3 seasons). You can guarantee only 2-3 years. I doubt it.
3.With the comparable week schedule at LES compared to the tough exciting schedule on the road, more
people will travel to those exciting away games, but less people will be coming to LES. (Financial Loss/
Investment) (temporary 2-3 seasons). You cannot guarantee financial loss for only 2-3 seasons and I am sure that even 2-3 seasons of considerable financial loss is tenable. I doubt, relatively speaking, that there will be a great increase in fans traveling to away games.
4.We will have a certain percentage of fans that will want to keep winning 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 seasons even if it
means playing all FCS teams or bottom of the barrel Mid major teams. These fans will not want to lose at
all cost and do not understand the consequences. These fans could hurt us from reaching our goal. Yes and surmounting that will be VERY difficult, if not impossible
Example: The Utes: Had almost no P5 teams come to Salt Lake until them became a P5 team. Now 1/2 of their P5 games are at Salt Lake. Utes had a hard terrible first two seasons as a P5 team. They adjusted until last season they became a respected P5 team in the Pac 12 and finished the season nationally ranked. Poor example: the Utes were very lucky that several factors came together all at the same time and got them into the PAC 12; you cannot validly compare a team already in a P5 conference to an independent team; plus, the Utes have had ONE winning season, let’s see how they do over the next 15 years.
They paid the price. The earned it. They went through all the growing pains that now, we must go through,
unless we just give us and say that we really are not as good as Utah and TCU that made it big as a P5 team.
TCU finished in the top 5 last season in the Big 12. Comparing us to TCU is not valid; they are in a P5 conference and BYU is an independent. It would be nice to see how you Ron - or any of us - with such dreams would fare as BYU AD. I think I would fare very poorly. Dreaming / fantasizing is one thing but asserting that is can and should be done is another. Nothing wrong with dreaming / fantasizing but let us all understand that the is the realm we are in.
Roy,
Instead of debating each other and trying to find fault with each other, can we find some common ground that could be a good direction for our team to go.
“No matter how you want to fantasize it we cannot force other teams to respect us.”
Is respect the wrong word? Is that really the important issue here? Should I have said that every team will have to recognize us as a P5 team because all that we do is P5 and nothing that we do is against P5 rules?
If so, I stand corrected, but this is not the issue. The issue, is what can we do to get to the next level.
Come on, brain storm with me. I am not the enemy.
Roy,
I quote you,
“There are way too many INTERNAL and EXTERNAL issues, concerns, power players (BOT overall and possible factions, BYU administration and possible factions, folks over the AD, the AD and possible factions there, Bronco and his coaches with possible factions even there, factions within the fan base), greed, indifference, dislike / hate. And then there are a myriad of external problems / blocks to deal with. Doing the best that can be done is different than doing whatever is necessary (do we go against our own moral compass - play on Sunday, threaten folks, bribe, step on necks; all of which and more may be necessary. We may have long term goals which may be in opposition to many other richer, more powerful individuals or groups.”
I agree with almost everything you said above. May we add your list to the said growing pains that need to be dealt with?
Or would you rather just leave everything the way it use to be but no longer can be?
With the new rules for college football, we will either be willing to go through the necessary growing pains or we will not. One way, we will remain relevant in football, the other way, we will not.
Tell us what you would like to do and why?
I don’t buy into the Sunday play thing. If once in 100 years we are forced into a Sunday play day, which i doubt would ever happen, we could forfeit that game and not play.
Are we going to give up life now, because one day we may be told that we have cancer? I think not in each case.
Roy,
I quote you: regarding my statement, “1.Playing 9 P5 teams the first couple seasons will probably mean that we will suffer a degree of humiliation of 6-6 seasons instead of 10-2 seasons. (Temporary set back 2-3 seasons). “
Your reply was, (cut an paste), "could also be 1, 2, 3 or 4 win seasons for several years. Would that be acceptable?”
I have a couple questions for you.
-
Have you ever bought at least one home in your life,
or where you afraid to because one day, you may lose your job and that home would go into foreclosure and your credit would be ruined." -
Are you going to refuse to grow as a team, because you do not want to take the risk of losing too many games during the growing process?
Roy,
I quote you: “You can guarantee only 2-3 years. I doubt it.”
“You cannot guarantee financial loss for only 2-3 seasons and I am sure that even 2-3 seasons of considerable financial loss is tenable. I doubt, relatively speaking, that there will be a great increase in fans traveling to away games.”
Yes Roy, there are no guarantees in life except that you will pay your taxes honestly or go to jail and that someday you will die.
The mortgage banker that gives you a 30 year mortgage had no guarantee that you will ever pay him back, but he takes the chance, because more likely than not, he will make a profit by giving you the mortgage.
If your fears are going to keep you from doing what you need to do in life, that is a sad life that you must be living. Franklin D. Roosevelt once said that there is nothing in life to fear, except fear itself. This was during world war 2.
example: the Utes were very lucky that several factors came together all at the same time and got them into the PAC 12; you cannot validly compare a team already in a P5 conference to an independent team; plus, the Utes have had ONE winning season, let’s see how they do over the next 15 years.
Roy,
Just a reminder, that before we went Independent, the Utah Utes and TCU were our peers all in the MWC with us altogether as equals. The last game we played vs TCU was at TCU and we beat them. I was at that game. TCU went into shock. TCU did the growing pains that made them successful enough to be invited into the Big 12. This last season, they got ranked as high as #3 in the nation and finished the season in the top 5 nationally ranked. I took them a couple of years to get use to playing at the higher level. Now as a result of their hard work and sacrifice, they make over $20 million per year off TV revenue instead of $800,000 when in the MWC. Ask them if their sacrifice was worth it.
Utah Utes, until the last 6 games, were the underdogs when playing us in recent history. The University did that which it had to do to become relevant. They brought in Urban Myers. He got the Utes on the right track.
He brought them success in two BCS Bowl games that set the stage for Utah to excel. When Urban Myers left, Whittingham carried on with that same new found success. They made themselves ready for the next big step into a P5 confereence, the Pac 10/12. The first two years, like TCU, they struggled. In their 3rd season, like TCU, they excelled once getting use to playing vs. the tougher schedule and they ended their season ranked in the top 25.
Yes Roy, I agree with you that their are always a thousand reasons why a person should not do something.
But Roy, it only takes one good reason to do it.
Again I ask, what is it that you want? Talk directly and not hypothetically. What is it that you want the cougars to do or to not do now.
I quote Roy: Dreaming / fantasizing is one thing but asserting that is can and should be done is another. Nothing wrong with dreaming / fantasizing but let us all understand that the is the realm we are in.
Roy,
you have to have a dream, before you can have your dream come true.
Sitting around waiting for something to happen or not happen, is not as rewarding for me and being active in trying to get something done that I believe is for the good or our team.
In many of my post, Roy, I have requested that you tell us straightforward, what it is that you believe would be best for our team.
I do hope that you have a better idea than mine.
i am not sold completely on mine.
I want to hear as many ideas as possible as to what may be best for our team.
I am open to adopting the many varied good ideas into one acceptable composite idea of my own.
I just don’t hear any ideas, and to me, that is very frustrating.
I love my Cougars and I do not want them to fall our of significance.
Please help with your ideas.
For 63 years, I have been an unrelenting fan of our Cougars.
Before that, I just never paid that much attention.
I am about to feel that if i am the only one that wants our team to keep up with our old peer group and be as good as they are, ** like we use to be, than the fight just is not worth it.
The fans deserve what they get if they are not willing to sacrifice anything for excellence.
Ya, I know, we can set back, without any effort spent, and complain about how unfair the system is and make up a bunch of excuses why we choose to fail under the new system instead of putting forth the effort to excel.