BYU vs. Gonzaga... nothing new to talk about

What are you talking about? Well, I guess it doesn’t really matter because when you say something contrary to my logic and reasoning, it only strengthens my point. I think the guys who post here are astute enough to know what is going on so keep criticizing my comments, it helps strengthen and reinforce what I am saying as truth.

Something I agree with you on. Funny how some complain about the crappy high school gyms and don’t correlate this to some of the losses. However, why did Bryant come to BYU? Why Mika? Why did Chapman and others come that have left? So many talented players including Jimmer have come to this school and so-called crappy league that has 2 top 12 teams in the nation. Go figure…

Of course your logic and reasoning is perfect. We should expect nothing else from Jim Hawks who created the universe :joy:

Ok, I’ll bite–Um, pretty sure Jimmer played in the MWC and went for like 50 against SDSU and UNM in sold out arenas full of 15,000 screaming maniacs, not 1200 fans and crickets at LMU where you can watch our games on TV and CAN HEAR THE BALL BOUNCE ON THE COURT DURING THE GAME!! That is just embarrassing…and BYU didn’t even think Bryant was good enough to offer out of HS, even though he’s active LDS and an AWESOME kid??? How big of a WHIFF was that by Rose and staff??? Mika came with the LP3 Final Four team, and bailed when he realized what he’d gotten himself into. Chapman left because Rose told him he would sit on the bench behind Seljaas and TJ. Now he’s playing 35mpg and shooting 43% from deep as a high volume 3 pt shooter and lock down defender against the VERY BEST players in the country, but Rose thought he’d sit the bench for us…so how’s that working out now, huh? This all sounds worse when I read it back to myself…and I’m the guy oft criticized for being too positive…

So, I wonder what Chapman would have done had he taken the challenge, worked hard with focus. If he’s that much better than Emery or Haws, Rose would have played him over those 2. Same with Dastrup if he works harder and focuses better. He will play more.
Does the small high school gym really make players play poorly? If so, why did the LP3 do so well in high school?
Who knew Haws would struggle with a new offense and defense this year? Who knew Emery’s marriage would crumble and he would not be able to focus on basketball? Michael Jordan managed to.

Harold, nice cherry picking job there. Even you would have to agree that Rose under performs in the rec league.
but nice try

You start with the assumption that Rose can’t make a mistake. So the only possible reason Chapman or Dastrup didn’t play more is their fault. Regardless if it’s his fault or not, Dastrup should absolutely assume responsibility for getting playing time, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually the correct decision.

Coaches make mistakes all the time and cost their teams big. Just because Rose has the best production of any BYU basketball coach, he is not infallible and there is no reason I have to assume he’s correct in his decision making.

Mark Jackson was a great coach, but Steve Kerr got out of his team’s way and they won a title because he managed to see what to do beyond his own ideas. Jackson was holding his team back and it cost him.

This is a pile of BS.

Lastly, you got owned by Larimer. Everything he said is true

A good coach is a good manager. He knows how to utilize the players he has to maximize their potential as a team unit. He understands how to develop talent and how to get the most out of what he has to work with.

Rose has not done this over the past 5 or 6 years now.

It was easy with Jimmer, he just let him take over and win games. There are no more Jimmers for Rose and the task requires effort and strategy. Rose is putting in the minimal amount of effort needed to have a decent team but not a really good team. A great coach would figure out what to do and his team would win some games they might not but not lose so many games they should win. The perfect example is the Gonzaga game. BYU had a chance to win and at the end the whole strategy was to get the ball to Haws because he was hot. The Jimmer approach backfired because Jimmer doesn’t play for BYU anymore…

That is why he is not a great coach.

That’s assuming your assumptions are correct. And, are your assumptions provable?
Rose has been coaching college level for many years. He has his method of knowing who to play. The players know too. Yes, there are always mistakes during games. Not many in practice and that’s where you prove to the coaches you should be playing more.

LOL!!! Rose is putting in the minimal amount of effort??? LOL!!! An assumption you can’t possibly prove.

I assume BS means Boy Scouts. A pile of Boy Scouts is trouble for sure. Now, his assumptions are unprovable as is yours. And, no more probable than mine. In fact, with my coaching experience, my assumptions are most likely correct.

This is the only key assumption from my statement:

  • Coaches, even greats ones, are fallible

Is that wrong? You’re giving Rose a lot of leeway. I understand it, but I disagree with some of his conclusions. And that’s not based on my opinion alone, but I’m looking at and listening to people who are far more successful and intelligent than I am. We need 5 shooters and size. That’s the bottom line. Payton gives us that, so let’s give him some confidence and play the man. I’m more in the shaka smart/Gregg Marshal camp. If you’re an underdog, you have to develop players by putting them on the court. And that’s coming from final 4 coaches who had no business being there. Not just little old me.

Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. I think Dastrup is a case where just needs confidence and that’s just a matter of getting playing time.

Rose needs to continue stepping away from his old system way of thinking and continue doing what he appears to be doing and grow into a new system and way of thinking. He can’t default back to what he has done in the past. Namely, guard centric hero ball. We have shooting bigs for once, lets use them!

Rather than shooters, I want big men that score, rebound and protect the paint. Score 8-12 a game. Shooters are the other 4 on the floor. Next year, Childs will be better at the midrange shot. Dastrup has to be physical in the middle. He has to be more aggressive and make the shots.

Did you see this write up…

BYU outperformed in 2 games in the 2016 season…a win over NM -5 and Gonzaga -7.5. BYU underperformed in 5 games starting with LB st. 2017…outperformed in 2 games, @Gonzaga -27.5 and @ SF-2.5. BYU underperformed in 6 games
This season BYU has outperformed in 2 games, @ UVU and @ USU. My entire point is that looking at BYU, Rose rarely outperforms and always underperforms. He is not moving the bar one way or another.

The above is a dead give away on a coach that has plateaued and coasting.

Oh I agree they still have to be able to do everything a traditional big can do, but the modern geometry of basketball rewards you for pulling the 5 defender out as far as you can. I don’t think physicality has been dastrups problem. I see it as being where he’s supposed to be issue and not hesitating, or in short, he’s overthinking because he’s nervous. His shooting is just fine. I like Luke but he can pretty much only score in a very narrow area and that clogs the paint. That’s why porzingus is such an interesting player. You can pop him into and out of the paint opportunistically and score from wherever.

Look at Dirk Nowitzki. Dude is 40 years old and he’s still in the top Points/possesion featuring him in a pick with a guard. Teams, NBA TEAMS, have to throw out their entire PNR defense to deal with the problems he causes as an old man.

And here we are with a team that can do that for once. This is how we can get an edge.

Well, the last several wide open 3’s Dastrup has taken have been clunkers. And, if he’s always out of position he can’t be on the floor. That isn’t being nervous. That is about focus or lack of it.

The proof is in the results.

What do you expect from a scapegoat and whipping boy?

For whatever reason you just don’t get it.

Assumptions without facts means there can be a variety of reasons for the results.