When are we all going to stop pretending that this team has ANY players worth a bean. Slowly but surely we see that even Bryant and Childs are players that wouldn’t sniff playing time on big 5 teams. I have said and and will say it again and again. Rose has zero ability to develop talent. We have guys with talent but they get worse the longer they play here.
Saw the discussion on best BYU coaches and Rose doesn’t belong in the conversation. Stop with the 20 win seasons. If a Frank Arnold or a Stan Watts had coached against the lousy teams we beat now, they would have had stellar records beyond 20 win seasons. As a team, our guys play horrible together on both end of the court, period. All this other talk is pure baloney. I have watched BYU teams for 50 years and all in all, the caliber of play in both football and basketball is as lousy now as I have ever seen it. Yes, there have been occasionally worse teams but all in all, what we have now is lower at a national level over time than it’s ever been. To me, BYU shouldn’t even make the NIT because i flat out don’t believe they are one of the top 100 teams in the country based on play (not wins or losses).
You may be right about the NIT. Except because of the Marriott Center capacity to fill seats and a lot of them, it’s still a good bet we will make the NIT.
Yes, this is a young team. A team that has married players on it and lots of family and school distractions. Church responsibilities too. Because of this, I think Rose gets a lot.
Bryant is legit. So is Childs. Anyone can see this.
Childs should not have played today. He hyperextended his knee and should have sat today and Thursday. Maybe even against Gonzaga. He has to be ready for the WCC for NIT consideration too.
Look, we lost today because we shot 37% and 13.6% from 3 land. 3-22. That’s the sole reason we lost. Oh, two bad layups by Worthington.
What you say about shooting percentage is true - you don’t win games shooting like that. But can we all agree that this isn’t an isolated problem for this team. How many times have they shot this badly this year? It’s a frequent event. Either this team just flat out can’t shoot straight (which I don’t believe), or they don’t get in correct position to shoot straight (which is frequently and has a ton to do with coaching), or finally they just take real bad shots (also frequently and again can be coached). Yes, I do believe that players are on the court and are responsible for shots taken, etc., but I can tell you for sure that horrible weave that Rose runs doesn’t do anything to help any of the above problems. Rose flat out runs a horrible offensive motion offense, particularly ineffective with this group of guys that mostly lack the speed to penetrate out of it and consequently we end up with really bad shots. I can’t stand to watch it any more.
By the way, I believe you have now said we have a young team for a few years. I think you are confusing the term young team with teams that continue to make mistakes that young players make, even though they are no longer young or inexperienced. As I stated, our teams may always look young because the guys never seem to get better. Are we to believe that Rose is a good coach and his players just aren’t able to perform better. Maybe some, but more on a coach that can’t team correct basketball skills to get his team to perform better.
I won’t say much about Dastrup except that he played well in more than one or two games and then he was left out in the cold, your comments are neither accurate or true. As a result of that, what you see him doing in games like today is totally expected. I told you and everyone else months ago this is what would happen and I was right on the mark. When you are willing to tell it like it is, you will see it as well.
As for the other comments they are the same things you say every time. It is nothing but a bunch of excuses… BYU shot poorly, they can’t make 3’s, they can’t make close shots or layups, they are tired, they are young. All of these excuses are reflective of mediocre teams. You say Childs, Bryant and Haws are all great players but if they were, BYU would not lose games like today. They were dominated in this game, losing by double digits.
It is time for Coach Rose to accept some responsibility for where this team is at right now. As for next year, you have to be joking if you think they are going to be any better. They will not improve with Rose coaching the way he does. He has to change and adapt.
Rose can’t shoot the ball for them. We had good shots and didn’t make them. Rose is putting them in position to win.
Now, something else you don’t get. All other teams have improved throughout the season. The fact we win most of the games says we are also improving. But we can’t win shooting 37% and 13.6% from 3’s.
No it doesn’t. There is a lot of stuff you aren’t getting about this team, about this coach and apparently about basketball in general. BYU is squeaking by in the games they are winning and it is against really bad teams sometimes. Pepperdine is one of the worst teams in D-1 right now and BYU was lucky to escape with a win.
Another point you probably missed is that the SD bench outscored BYU’s bench 36-18. Of course BYU has no bench because they have not been developed and given enough opportunities to contribute.
If you really believe that BYU is “improving” then my suspicions are confirmed… that you have no idea what you are watching.
I agree with you Jim, it is the same old, same old issues that BYU can’t get past the 3 or 4th place. If you can’t hit the 3 after jacking it up and going O for 14 or whatever stop shooting 3’s every time down. With the exception of Elijah Bryant we don’t have many players that can get to the rim. I didn;t watch the game today and I glad I didn’t. It’s frustrating that this team can’t be more physical around the basket both offensively and defensively. I watched the game Thursday that they could have easily lost but let one of the cellar dwellers take us into two overtimes. I’m really concerned about this team and the direction they are going. I also watched Schroyer draw up plays in the overtimes and he is intense and looks like the leader during these times. I glad that he is a take charge guy.
Once again, you don’t understand basketball. The other teams are improving and we still beat them. Yes, our bench sucks. And Dastrup chose not to improve. Instead, he pouts and acts like a 2 year old. He shouldn’t play. But, the first 7 still can play and even though you don’t have a trained eye we are getting better. The only reason for the loss was missing easy shots and 3’s.
I haven’t commented much this year on basketball and coach Rose. Before this year started, Hopper was mad at me for saying that BYU would finish 4th or 5th in the WCC. It is not worth the argument anymore. BYU basketball needs a makeover starting at the top. Rose needs to retire or be let go! He isn’t creative and frankly he isn’t a very smart coach. Bryant is a 6.5 out of 10 for D-1 guards and Child’s is a 8 out of 10 power forward. Haws is a 5 and everyone else is below average for D-1 OR not played or developed enough to know what they are. Fortunately the WCC is full of bad teams and Haws has the ability to perform at a 9 out of 10 level once every 10 games. Over haul the entire program is the answer. I would probably go a step farther and let Holmoe go too. But people would probably be mad about that. Holmoe has never been a good administrator. He has presided over a meltdown in both football and basketball over the past 5 plus years. Time to rethink our recruiting net, talent evaluation and coaching staffs. I agree with Jim on his comments even though he and I have been mocked over the last 3 years. Time and performance has a way of deciding these discussions and who has unrealistic expectations.
It all boils down to one thing…coaching!! Get good coaches and support them with resources! There is no way that BYU shouldn’t have an advantage in recruiting all over the world against the WCC and with our arena and TV and huge national following the resources of the Y should generally win out against WCC schools. The problems are many but the coaching is where we should start! We need vision, creativity, and accountability in a coach for our program. Does Rose have any of those attributes?
Who is Hopper?I give up trying to talk common sense. Everyone wants to give a pass to Rose and over inflate the talent. Good luck -you and Hawks are on the money.
Does anyone else see the irony and confusion of this comment?
I love it when you tell me I don’t understand basketball and then demonstrate your vast knowledge by writing something like this. It’s perfect and it sort of reminds us all where you are and how much you actually know, which obviously isn’t a lot.
This kind of stuff has never been a barometer of what constitutes improvement. It is meaningless. Besides, BYU should have lost to USF at home, the refs stole that game from USF and BYU was the beneficiary. I only want to know how BYU plays against the teams they play… not this team beat that team who beat that team…
That doesn’t prove anything and nobody here supports your nonsense and perspective. It isn’t reflective of anything we see.
So you admit you are one dimensional in your reasoning. Big man to admit your limitations:slight_smile:
The referees did not steal the game from SF. BYU has improved along with the entire league.
I’m mad about the same things as everybody else. But if we let Rose go, who replaces him?
I’m all for opening the war chest and paying for coaching talent in general. Even for an AD. But I don’t see any evidence they will. So again, who replaces Rose? Because otherwise, I’d rather let this experiment with Schroyer play out and see if the continued growth in the new system pans out.
So are you saying that you see improvement? Like you I am okay waiting till next year but I dont hold out much hope. I just dont see it improving relative to the rest of the league. What do you see right now that makes you think BYU will be better next year?
BYU needs a motion offense to move the ball and off ball players to balance scoring by getting easier shots for everyone. This also slows down the game so we don’t burn out our athletes, especially against teams like Gonzaga. The defense needs to choke off threes and switch where appropriate.
Hiring Schroyer and throwing out his own schemes shows Rose knows he needs a change to win. They screwed up because they didn’t build enough counters into the system to beat teams who would scout us well. Then we defaulted back to hero ball and lost. More than anything else, their player development is baffling. That they let the bigs shoot threes at all shows some signs Rose knows he has potential there.
This year is part strategy changing process. This was just their first attempt and it still performed at a decent level for a ‘rough draft.’ There are lots of things I would have changed mid-season but still. All I hope for next year is they stay the course and improve the system counters and drill down harder on player development. Most of all, they need to give these guys some confidence!!! Nixon, dastrup, yo, even seljaas are hesitating and it’s causing them to miss. If they shoot in rhythm they do fine but you can see they’re afraid. Watch their makes versus their misses.
TL/DR: Rose dumped his schemes and started a process of change and I’m curious how he improves it next year.
Rose dumped his offensive coordinator from the last several seasons and now appears to have to do it again. This offense and defense is a Rose problem not an assistant problem. Talent development is a Rose problem. Talent evaluation is a Rose problem. Recruiting or lack thereof is a Rose problem. Look at the bigs that Rose has recruited as the head coach. I give him some credit for Mika but really that decision was a HawsEmery and Q Lewis decision but honestly, other than Mika he hasn’t recruited a post player since he has been the head coach! It is amazing that he gets by on the hope for “next year” every year except the Jimmer year. Heck, even Jimmer should have started as a freshman but he didn’t. Rose is a nice guy and loves bb but really doesn’t know the sport as a good coach should.
I give up trying to talk common sense. Everyone wants to give a pass to Rose and over inflate the talent. Good luck -you and Hawks are on the money.
