BYU vs Utah in Vegas

it really doesn’t seem to out of the realm of possibility that this has a strong chance of happening. Everything that I read says that Vegas gets the Pac12s 5/6 team. That looks like Utah could be in that spot. I think USC needs to beat UCLA. Which looks like they will. I think BYU wants this matchup but Utah will do everything in its power to avoid this at any cost. Utah tries to make BYU feel inferior by bringing up the P5 status but they don’t want any part of this Cougar team without Booker. The Utes would lose to the Cougars in the Vegas bowl if they play. But this would be the most exciting bowl game for BYU in over 20 years and one of the best bowl games for Utah since joining the Pac12. It would be one of the best bowl games outside of the playoffs and NY6 games hands down. The state of Utah needs this and so does this bowl season, the only thing standing in its way are the two on the hill. Coach Witt and Dr. Hill stop being pompous a-holes and let this happen.

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I really don’t think Utah would lose and I certainly don’t think They’re afraid of playing us! They are a way better team than us at this particular point in history. It hurts to say this, especially since we beat Utah by a minimum of 30 points every year I was at BYU, but it is very unlikely we would win if we played them. We certainly would be huge underdogs. This is actually the first year I’ve actually started actively cheering against Utah. I have always hoped they would win anytime they weren’t playing BYU, especially since they played us every year so the better they did, the better we did. But now they’ve become so pompous and so superior I love watching them lose. That said, I don’t think we are where they are right now. We can’t even beat the worst SEC team, and Michigan, who got killed by Ohio State (and who Utah beat), coasted to an easy win against us. I mean you have to be somewhat objective here…

You’re right MikeH… you have to be somewhat objective here. So… read this objective post because I don’t think you are thinking through the situation much.

If BYU and Utah played each other next week, I would give BYU a 50/50 chance or even better than that. Had they played each other earlier in the season I would have given the nod to Utah. The truth is that Utah isn’t really playing that well right now and without their RB Booker they are just an average team. After starting 6-0 and setting the world on fire, they got a beatdown from USC and are 3-3 since. BYU should have beaten UCLA in Pasadena and Utah lost to a weaker UCLA team at home and barely squeaked out a win vs. lowly Colorado.

Throw all of those factors into a bowl and mix them around and you will see that the result I came up with is pretty accurate. The two teams are pretty even right now, with a slight edge to BYU.

I agree with you Jim. I would give the slight edge to BYU because they would be way up for that game and Utah would be kinda ticked to go to the Vegas bowl. I think it would be within 7 points either way but the edge would be in BYUs favor. BYU 21 Utah 17

Utah is headed to the what use to be called the Emerald Bowl in San Francisco… According to my neighbor that works in the AD office at Utah…

So there will be no Utah BYU game this year… sad, I would like to see how they would play each other…

Byu would beat Utah by 2 touchdowns. No booker. No covey. Desimated by injury. Utah could not score on even a sad colo team at home

The truth is that Utah has 0 chance of being in a bowl with Byu. They have too good of record to fall all the down to the Vegas

Interesting because they have the same record as BYU… 9-3.

It is true that they have the same record as BYU but they play in the “Conference of Champions” so just by association their 9-3 is vastly superior to BYU’s 9-3 and BYU obviously isn’t worthy of anything better than a 6-6 or 7-5 (at best) PAC 12 team. BYU should be grateful just to be on the same field with a 6-6 or 7-5 PAC team.

If you read the comments section in the Tribune and Deseret News articles on BYU the Ute fans don’t want to play BYU because either BYU is a dirty team or they just aren’t worthy to be on the Ute’s schedule anymore. A lot of Ute fans don’t want to play BYU anymore. Frankly I would love to see BYU schedule some other exalted P5 team and break ties with Utah forever. It is an ugly unhealthy rivalry. I wish BYU would stop scheduling them in everything and erase them from their memory. I don’t personally have anything against the team, the coaches, or the school. I just loathe a lot of their fans. I have good friends who are Ute fans, it isn’t all of the fans, and probably not a majority, but there are just enough real hateful jerks that I would just as soon that BYU had no athletic competition with them and don’t tell me BYU fans are just as bad. BYU has its share of jerks but it’s different and there aren’t as many. BYU fans would root for Utah when they didn’t play BYU but that was never reciprocated by Utah fans. Of course I am speaking in general there are exceptions to everything.

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I wouldn’t call Utah’s 9-3 “vastly superior” to BYU’s record. I think the best measuring stick is how both teams did against common opponents this year.

Both teams played Fresno, Utah St, Michigan, and UCLA. Utah went 3-1 with three of the games being in SLC. BYU went 2-2 with three games being on the road.
Utah’s total scores for the 4 games was 102-72. BYU’s was 126-92. Utah outscored their opponents by 20 more points, however so did BYU’s opponents.

The only convincing win on Utah’s resume against these four teams was against Fresno (45-24) BYU played even better against Fresno (52-10) I give this win to BYU.

Against UCLA Utah and BYU both lost. Utah lost by 8 points and never found the endzone in SLC. BYU lost by 1 point on the road. I give the win to BYU.

Utah got Michigan at the only time in the season that Michigan was unprepared. In week one in SLC, the Utes got a 4th quarter turnover to seal the win. We don’t need to mention what happened to the Cougars in the big house. I give this win to Utah.

Finally, there is Utah State. Utah won by 10 in SLC in a game that Chuckie Keeton was pretty beat up in. BYU went up to Logan and tore the Aggies apart by 23 points (and it could have been way more). I give this win to BYU.

The stats lean a little towards Utah since they had a better overall scoring average against common opponents (thanks to Mich giving BYU it’s worst game in 20+ years). However, if you look at each game individually in 3 of the 4 comparisons against common opponents, BYU preformed better than Utah did, and they did it away from home for the most part.

I would take the 9-3 BYU over the 9-3 Utah right now.

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Dan, you write a compelling argument but here is where we differ. Utah had to play a P12 schedule while BYU played all of their tough games early in the year, when teams are figuring rotations and game plans before conference play. When we got guys hurt, we had the luxury of rehabing when a UCONN or some AAC stinker came to town. Utah, no such luck.

Once conference play starts, there is no rest, injuries pile up and they sure took their toll on Utah. Booker was 69% of the offense. Covey, another 12%. Those two alone spelled the end of Utah’s run. Imagine what our team was like after the loss of Hill and you get the picture.

If we were to have BYU play the same P12 schedule as Utah.

Oregon-L (Mangum would have been too green at that time and on the road)
Cal-? probably a W
Wash-L (@ Wash)
AU-L (@ AU)
UCLA-W (No running back at our house)

5 losses and that is giving BYU the benefit of the doubt.

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Here’s where we differ. If BYU has Michigan at home with Hill starting, before Michigan gets their feet under them, I think they win. Mangum would have been green against Oregon and may have lost that game. However, I would give Mangum a chance against USC. They beat a 6-6 Washington and a 6-6 Arizona on the road. That leaves them 9-2 or 10-1. If we were Utah, we could be playing for a playoff berth right now.
Yes, I’m sure my scenario is full of holes, however, simply saying that Utah has a tougher schedule because they play in the big, bad P12 is also full of holes.

I was actually being sarcastic about Utah’s 9-3 being vastly superior to BYU’s 9-3. I was merely parroting what I read written by Utah fans in the comments section on BYU articles in the Tribune and Deseret News. I would say Utah had a more impressive schedule and a few more impressive wins but based on head to head competition I don’t see much of a difference between the two teams and Utah has some key injuries right now. If the two teams had played the end of November game like in year past I think BYU would likely have won.

Here is the other issue that most of missed on the Michigan game…

The first game of the season against Utah Harbaugh was implementing his spread offense he used in San Fran… He soon realized that he did not have the QB to do that job, and switched to the run offense BYU played against…

If Utah had played Michigan when BYU did… they would have lost by at least two TD’s…

Those are good points to think about and debate but I don’t think they address the current question… Would BYU beat Utah in a bowl game right now?

If you look at all of the factors to determine an answer to that question, I think you have to give the edge to BYU. If you lay it out in % win chance I would put it somewhere around 60% BYU and 40% Utah, which is close but a slight edge to BYU. Still, that leaves Utah with a definite chance to win the game.

Does that make sense?

Can BYU beat Utah or any of the P5 teams on a one time basis or infrequently? The answer is YES! Can the Y beat the Utes or any of the big time P5 teams on a 50% basis or better? I say not where they are now. Much of what I see posted above is rationalization: i.e., “if this, then this.” I don’t like to type it but Utah outcoaches BYU. Also U of U has more depth than BYU, for all 22 players. I believe that Utah’s front 7 (on D) is better than the Y’s and I believe Utah’s D backfield is better than the Y’s D backs. I think that on O, it is a tossup, although an edge to the Cougs at QB. If forced at gunpoint to bet large, I would bet that Utah wins. If the current teams played 100 games (and yes, I know that is impossible), I believe the U of U would win 75 to 80% of those games. All you have to do is look at the games the Y has played the Utes over the past 12 games to see they have had a stronger program, even when both were in the MWC together. Those are my beliefs, if you believe differently that’s cool too.

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Utah is missing two of their premier offensive players in Covey and Booker… Add to that their QB seems to make questionable decisions, I would have to agree with your assessment BYU would have a slight edge…

Defense (CB’s) is where my concerns for BYU is at now…

Mile H, I agree with you.

Utah has earned all the bragging rights with their accomplishment of 3 great BCS bowl vs our none and with their acceptance into the Pac 8/10/12 and we have had no invitations into a P5 conference. They have been ranked consistently higher than us.

Utah, being a P5 conference team wants no attachment to us at all since we have not achieved that goal.

Utah has everything to lose, including bragging rights, if we upset them in a bowl game. On the other hand, playing us, a non P5 conference team,offers them nothing to gain. I understand why they would not want to play us.

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I don’t disagree with most of what has been posted here, but I do feel that Utah’s program in general is much better than ours. Right now I’m watching the basketball game I have dvr’d and half way through the first half it’s looking pretty sad. If this is the best team we can field I’m so discouraged that I may stop watching basketball (not my favorite sport anyway) for the rest of the season. Very depressing to say the least. Hopefully we make it a bit closer by the end of the game, because this is downright sickening.

And I do think Utah would most likely win, even without Booker and Covey. Their line, on both sides of the ball, is much superior to ours, which probably explains why we can’t seem to run an inch against anyone. And they have more team speed which would likely let them get to the edge more often than our defense can.

The good news is we’ve closed to within 10 in the BB game with 15:43 left to play. That in itself is a relief. And yes I know you guys already know the final score. No spoilers. Just kidding, im off this site for tonight anyway. :smile:

Seriously? Emery flat out punches a guy? I know it must be frustrating to play against an obviously superior team. But that’s even more embarrassing than losing by 20+. At least we kept the score reasonable. Cold comfort! Yuck.