Conscience vs Conscience?

I’ll open up the question. The Conscience has been said to be the Light of Christ which is in all mankind. The Light of Christ or “Truth.”
Senator’s Romney and Lee came to 2 opposition answers after much prayer. Romney’s decision lost and Lee’s won. Is Lee more righteous than Romney? Did the Senate’s decision mean Romney is more righteous because the Republicans are wicked King Noah’s court of wicked judges? Any ideas?

Impossible to determine because the truth is based upon indeterminate variables. You are just accepting their word for whether they prayed about it. We as individuals can receive revelation for our own personal family and only God knows whether we are truly seeking his help or just going through the motions to satisfy our own egos. Watching the SOTU last night, confirmed to me that our leaders have removed themselves from God and are trying to govern this country by the seat of their pants. It won’t work in the long run and I think we all understand that. Do I think Trump is evil? Well we are all a combination of good and evil. Trump, in my own estimation runs this country in a way that conforms closer to my beliefs-the Democrats as a whole are more an antithesis of my personal beliefs. Pelosi tearing up the copy of the SOTU address was the most idiotic thing I’ve seen in that type of venue and how anyone could possibly vote for her is beyond my understanding. Trump, ignoring shaking her hand wasn’t real bright either. Putting faith in definitive details in the political arenas is like opening Pandora’s box-you never know what might fly out and bite you

I learned a very valuable lesson about revealtion:

I have a friend who has been a Mission President (Twice), an MTC President and a Temple President.

He was talking one day about getting a revelation about some temple ordinance. When someone asked him what it was, his comments made me think about it more. His answer was “That was a revelation that was intended for my benefit, you will need to find your own revelation that is specifically for your benefit”.

What a profound answer. Each time we receive a revelation, it is specifically for us at that time to understand, not everyone else.

Thank you for sharing that quote-I believe it is accurate

Good points. What Pelosi did was actually against the law. She destroyed House documents. The House should impeach her :slight_smile:

Romney’s explanation was illogical and incoherent. Wearing his faith on his sleeve like that as though he’s the only person with a conscience was really sad. My point is, Lee didn’t. Although he did recently react improperly but repented. My view is Romney, at age 70, devised a plan to get back at Trump knowing the House Dems were going to win back the House and impeach Trump. Romney is a wolf in sheeps clothing and his niece rejected his illogical choice.

Huh? Sounds like an attempt to side step what the truth is. This question is quite simple. Two devout members deciding the fate of one man. They both go to their knees. Romney says the truth is Trump broke an unwritten law and should be removed from office. Lee says the truth is Trump did not break the law and should not be removed from office. Which one has the truth and which one is deceived? Most reasonable and logical people have the conscience that Trump is innocent. In this case both can’t be right.

Abuse of power is not considered a crime but it has been considered an impeachable offense by some. It was one of the Articles of Impeachment that came out of the House Judiciary Committee in the Clinton trial but the House voted it down by about 2-1 and it wasn’t sent to the Senate for consideration. Clinton was impeached for Obstruction of Justice and Perjury. Everybody considers those impeachable and the evidence against him was overwhelming. Apparently every Democrat in both houses of congress, and Mitt Romney, thinks abuse of power is impeachable and apparently all of the Democrats in both houses think obstruction of Congress is a real crime even when what they consider obstruction is actually the President’s right to executive privilege concerning his refusal to cooperate in the investigation pertaining to some subpoenas and some witnesses. So they made up the Obstruction of Congress charge because they had no evidence for Obstruction of Justice. Mueller didn’t find any. They knew that all of their media friends would run with it and to the average Joe on the street it sounds pretty bad.

It is interesting that in the Clinton Impeachment a lot of Republicans in The House rejected the proposed article of Abuse of Power. Probably all of the Democrats rejected it. So Democrats didn’t use to consider it impeachable. It was clear Clinton abused his power. He tried get Monica Lewinski to sign a false affidavit concerning his affair with her and it was material to the Paula Jones lawsuit against him. I suppose abuse of power could be grounds to remove a president under exceptional circumstances with clear cut abuses of power and overwhelming evidence. That didn’t exist in this case but expect to see the Democrats sooner than later starting a new witch hunt.

What is pitiful about all this is it is really a cover up for Joe Biden who used his influence to keep Ukraine from investigating his son and Trump got in office and wanted Ukraine to investigate corruption. Did he use a quid pro quo? Maybe. Was it a crime? Not hardly and many others in office have done it for good reasons. It is all ridiculous. The real corrupt parties are the Bidens. It looks like he may not be going anywhere anyway unless the power brokers in the Democrat Party rig it for him like they did for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

The whistleblower in this case was by all accounts an Obama holdover. It is no secret who it is. Politicians are just not supposed to mention his name although a few have (Rand Paul for one). Trump should have gotten rid of all of them as fast as possible and put his own people in place.

Gershowitz explained high crimes and misdemeanors well. And he’s no Trump fan… Mitt Romney must have slept through it. The Constitution states what impeachable offenses are. They are crimes. Trump committed no crime. Uggg…

If anybody cares to read it there is another view on Mitt Romney’s principles outlined in a Washington Examiner article… Here is a link to the article. I linked it through the Bongino Report. I don’t look to Drudge anymore as a link to conservative news. The article is an opinion piece but it details Romney’s positions and his frequent reversals depending on political expediency.

Either Romney was acting on his principles when he voted or his vote was out of spite for Trump. To me he appears to be a typical politician. No better or worse than any of them and yet he cast a vote that won’t help him politically unless he is planning to switch parties and move to another state.

I was thinking about his vote and Lee’s before I read the article and although I thought Romney’s vote was wrong I wasn’t about to go so far as to question whether he felt like it was what God wanted him to do. I think sometimes we can seek inspiration and we are left to work things out and what is the right answer for us may not be the right answer for somebody else. Although it is a minority opinion there are many who think a simple abuse of power is impeachable. It is questionable that Trump abused his power but maybe the answer for Romney was that he should vote his conscience if he felt like Trump abused his power and if he felt like he should be removed from office for it. Lee felt differently and I can respect both their opinions but after reading the article I wonder about Romney’s principles and whether his vote was just one of spite. At any rate it isn’t helping him politically in the short term. Who knows what may happen to Trump. The Democrats will never give up on nailing him until he is out office. They might try to impeach him again before the election if they can find anything they think might stick. They will drum up another scandal to deflect from their woefully weak field of candidates and put everything they can into defeating him at the ballot box. If he wins again they will repeat the whole process for another 4 years. If he is eventually removed from office it is possible Romney could be vindicated. For the present I just think he was wrong and I question whether his vote was due to his principles.I have learned one thing over the years and that is I can’t predict the future and I am generally surprised when the unexpected doesn’t happen.

I usually take the person word until he proves unworthy of my trust.

I am not like others who think there is only one choice (Conservative or Liberal), my personal opinion is that God made us unique and have different life experiences that helps us makes the decisions that are important for us at the time of the decision (hope that made sense).

I believe Romney made his decision based on how he understood the Constitution (because there is so many views, even within the conservative movement on what the Constitution means), what he read and heard in the trial and his answers to his personal prayers.

Lee had a different experience than Mitt for whatever reason, I am not to judge either man for their decision.

When I was young, I was very much a black and white thinker. It was this way or the wrong way. It made life harder because I never considered “the gray” areas. That is one reason I left the Republican party, because the powers to be were becoming more and more “Black and White”.

I would hope that Trump (not likely) would learn from this experience and dial back the rhetoric to cause contention and and his stirring the pot comments on Twitter.

For once in his adult life, act like a grown up and not a petulant child. He is the President, act with decorum for heavens sake.

That is what I can’t figure out, Was Trump just naïve? Obama cleaned house and Trump leaves a lot of holdovers, who are causing all kinds of problems. Trump should of just fired Comey and started down from there. Then the ambassadors. He seems to understand the Judgeships.

Romney is the worse kind of politician. In Mass. he was a Pro Choicer, then when he ran for the Presidency, he flipped. Then he comes to Utah as a Conservative buoyed up Senator Hatch and betrayed the voters of Utah. This conscience thing is a bunch of baloney.

If you were to check polls in Utah, We would land as one of the highest states % wise that supports Trump. Romney went against the will of the people and he is about to pay for it.

I’m like you-I just haven’t been sure about Romney for years and I will leave it to the Utah voters to decide his political future. As for Trump-what you see is what you get and I’m ok with that for now. The democrats have nothing to offer the citizens of this country. Their rhetoric is “simply anti-Trump”, so if this is true I’m thinking they are-

  1. Anti strong economy
  2. Anti strong defense
  3. Anti religion
  4. Anti law enforcement
  5. Pro illegal immigration
  6. Pro socialist programs
  7. Pro high taxes
  8. Anti democracy’s majority rules
    Sorry Floyd-this is more of a response to Aro’s post

I don’t think this type of “Whistleblower” crap has ever happened before when a President takes office, So my assumption is that Trump never realized that Obama “Left orders”…

I agree pretty much with what everyone wrote. Even you :slight_smile:
However, the scriptures say trust not in the arm of flesh. That pretty much goes along with politicians.
Mitt’s attempt to bear his testimony and why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church was fake and I felt no confirmation of his testimony. It was hard to watch. As someone wrote he was doing this to get back at Trump. Not just for what he said and did against him. But for what he said against McCain as well.

He was 70 when he ran for the Senate. Why? knew what the Dems were going to do if they won back the House in 2018. We all knew because they started talking about impeachment Jan. 21, 2017. And, being a mid-term election all signs pointed to this happening. So, why not run and take the chance that he could stand up and vote to convict Trump before the 2020 election. Diabolical? Yes! Doable? Certainly if he’s full of hatred and being influenced by the counterfeit spirit. Sad…an his niece agrees. Sad…

Look, I don’t know what all the heartburn is about. This “impeachment” is a 100% sham. Romney knows that and every rational and reasonable person knows it. It was disgustingly repulsive to me to have the “managers” spout their crapola. To have Romney come out with his dramatically brave and so painfully difficult faith-based decision is laughable. The ONLY thing Romney did was give the Dems some cover. Romney knowingly voted for a sham.

To be truthful, the Clinton impeachment was a sham also. Don’t get me wrong, he is a despicable person and I hope he goes to a burning hell. But the impeachment, itself, was a political sham.

Except with Clinton the public would never have known what he did with Monica. She never would have been able to move forward with her life.

Speaking of Obama, I just saw a Mike Bloomberg commercial with Obama endorsing Bloomberg. Talk about dumping your VP. Pretty much sums up his loyalty. If I were a betting man, I would think there is a big mirror in every single room at the Obama house

One could say that about Romney and his twitter handle

Romney used this account to criticize Trump for years.

Things that roil me:
Romney speaking before the world, “My faith made me do it”, now you have most of the Christians in the US pissed at the Mormon Church for dragging religion into a bitter feud.

The Hyper hypocritical Dems are giving Romney standing ovations for being the first Republican to vote to impeach after they have spent years condemning Mitt when he ran himself just so they can tout that the SHAM impeachment was legitimate because it was “bipartisan”!

Most of all, Mitt did all of this for spite, he turned his back on Utahans and backstabbed his fellow senators. While the rest of us hold our noses and support all of the great things the President has accomplished, and his accomplishments are Many, this JERK, Romney, chose to make it personal. He should resign and let a TEAM PLAYER represent Utah and the will of the people.

Benedict Arnold

I understand your feelings and views, I personally do not share some of those same views.

So what Romney used a alias twitter account, seeing some of the garbage I have personally seen and been the target of what some Utah Republicans are capable of doing, I somewhat understand Romney actions.

As for bringing up religion in his comments, I applaud for it. There are too many members of this church who refuses to stand up for the church or what is right all in the name of political correctness. Having been the target of some of these so called saints, I can tell you that is not a nice feeling.

But according to Scott I am evil because I don’t share the “conservative” viewpoint. So I guess it all relative to our experiences and beliefs.

Like I said Chris, I respect your views and opinions, I will always take what you say and consider it because of that respect.