Conspiracy theorists?

Why is BYU losing in Portland? Don’t they want 2 or 3 teams in the NCAAs? BYU is back at shooting poorly free throws, missing layups and short shots and turnovers. And Chatman is getting playing time and 0-5.
Hopefully, BYU comes out in the 2nd half and play better. Those small gyms continue to be a problem.

I just got home from coaching a recreation league game with 7th and 8th graders. Apparently they play better than the BYU Cougars do.

I guess the only way I can analyze this game is by looking at the stats. What an embarrassing loss.

So looking at the box score a few things jump out right away. KC was 4-17 shooting but hey, he was only 4 assists short of another triple double so maybe that was the focus again. He actually attempted 2 3 point shots? Seems a little selfish to me. Team totals of 14 turnovers and only 10 assists? More selfish play. 9 points and very few minutes from BYU’s bench players and 32 points and significant minutes for Portland’s bench players. More selfish focus by the coaching staff.

Hopefully somebody that saw the game can weigh in because this is the best I can come up with based on what I have seen in their other embarrassing losses.

As far as Gavenman and his conspiracy theorist comment, it is obvious once again that he has no clue what it even means, let alone what he is talking about…

JH: Ijust got home from coaching a recreation league game with 7th and 8th graders. Apparently they play better than the BYU Cougars do.

SG: And this makes you an expert. Got it :smile:

JH: So looking at the box score a few things jump out right away. KC was 4-17 shooting but hey, he was only 4 assists short of another triple double so maybe that was the focus again. He actually attempted 2 3 point shots? Seems a little selfish to me.

SG: can’t tell from a box score. He made tough shots against GU and they just weren’t going in today. You also don’t know how many shots were with the clock running down. And, he made a big 3 against GU. So, shooting a couple of open ones doesn’t prove selfishness. It does show prejudice on your part :wink:

JH: Team totals of 14 turnovers and only 10 assists? More selfish play. 9 points and very few minutes from BYU’s bench players and 32 points and significant minutes for Portland’s bench players. More selfish focus by the coaching staff.

SG: Poor correlation and analysis. How the turnovers happened doesn’t equate into selfishness. And there won’t be too many assists when you shoot 38% for the game. So, there is no way to correlate the two. Just shows more prejudice :smile:
Chatman played poorly and shot poorly. Sejlass again shot and played poorly. Kaufusi was just okay but as Coach Rose said, he doesn’t secure rebounds. So, with Austin playing well, Kaufusi’s time is going to be less. Aytes has just not played well and so his time has been reduced. So, if Emery and KC shoot poorly it is just hard to win. But it has nothing to do with selfishness. Shows your prejudice again :smile:

So, this just shows where conspiracy theories should be shelved. In the crapper :wink:

I can sort of sum up what you said - blah blah blah blah blah… it doesn’t really make sense and since you didn’t see the game, that is expected. Even when you see the game… well, yeah.

There is no conspiracy that can influence poor play. BYU just is not a very good team. So what does that mean for them after beating Gonzaga? Well, I said before that Gonzaga isn’t a very good team either. I will make a prediction right now… which ever team (or maybe two teams if they are lucky) makes it to the ncaa tournament will lose in the first round. The wcc is really weak this year.

Or maybe the WCC is just a better league than in the past. It may be that. Anyway, we will make it to the sweet 16 :smile:

On another note, just passing this information on. I don’t know if you knew Kay Atkins. I know your dad did. David, one of his sons, is still in our stake. He is my wife’s Uncle. He passed away this evening up in Bakersfield.

Stats don’t lie. 10 assists for the entire game with 6 coming from KC proves that BYU was playing selfish ball.

In fairness to KC, he drove to the hoop as he always does, drew contact on 8-10 shots and not one foul called.

rec league lives up to its name

When you shoot 38% there isn’t much opportunity for assists. Right!
And you say he was fouled on his shots and that is why he didn’t score more. So, his drives were good choices with nothing to do with selfishness. If he’s open to score he should try.
Thanks for proving me right :wink:

Do you know this factually or are you just guessing? Have you done some in depth research to prove your idea that 38% shooting yields a low number of assists? Sorry, but there is no correlation between shooting % and assists. There is a closer correlation with points scored and assists. The more points you score the more assists you generally have. Scoring 81 points with only 10 assists is really poor.

I read some posts on cougarboard and there were several fans who posted that KC was out of control on his drives and his 5 turnovers would seem to indicate that. That he tried to do too much himself at the end and it “cost the team”… another indication of selfish play. So once again you are not “proven right”. You are wrong.

Honestly, we can cut through all of this nonsense and draw the same conclusion… this team isn’t very consistent and just not that good.

I have a question regarding the “rec. league refs.”… and I have been one of the most critical of officiating, particularly in this league.

So here we go… we have all played in leagues and games where the officiating is less than stellar. So how do you counteract that? I noticed in this game that Portland was called for 5 more fouls (26-21) than BYU and BYU shot 7 more free throws (29-22) than Portland so regardless of whether KC was “fouled” (and I know his drives to the basket are out of control frequently) can BYU really use that as an excuse for losing a game like this?

I have my doubts.

I might be more sympathetic if the stats were more one sided for Portland but they are not. I didn’t see the game but I would like to before commenting completely. All I am saying is that if the rec league is what they are playing in, then both teams have to adjust and play in the situation they find themselves… and that means BYU has to adjust an play better. The stats favored them with regards to fouls called and free throws given and it was on Portland’s home floor.

What are your thoughts on this?

That’s funny. I’ve been saying this for the longest time. I think they are less competent than other officials in other leagues. Often late down the floor and out of position to see a lot of the calls. Even for the other teams.
I have also been saying that we have to just score more points regardless of the officiating. Make a couple more shots and free throws. Stop missing layups. In the NBA, players are fouled while driving to the basket and manage to score regardless of the contact. And the bigot thing against Mormons is simply a red herring.

you are asking the wrong guy. Everyone here knows I think the WCC does not trust BYU to stay and so unless BYU is a bubble team, the calls don’t go our way.

LOL!!! And you have proof? Letters, audio tapes? Email? Faxes? Your statements are without merit.

What is it about all of those things that constitute “proof”.

Nobody would ever do that, whether there was a conspiracy or not. To suggest that is what you need to prove something is ridiculous. I have never heard anybody else suggest the possibility that this would prove anything… so it might be a good idea to drop it.

Chris’ reasoning makes a lot of sense, particularly if you come from the all too obvious perspective that ultimately to most of these schools it is all about the money and they have, in many cases, become dependent on the revenue generated from the money sports. The government has forced them, through title 9 and other things, to be in this position.

Really it is just another affront to our personal freedoms…

If you want to be taken seriously with a conspiracy you need proof that is true in the real world. Other than that you would be considered a nut.

So, Chris reasoning only makes sense to the nuts who buy into or form the conspiracies :chestnut:

And then spin this into the federal governments fault for not playing well enough to win is mind-boggling. What a stretch to say our freedoms are destroyed by a loss for BYU on a road game. LOL! This makes Utard fans intelligent. Our friend we both know visited their daughter in SLC and they are all saying Emery committed a felony and should be in jail. And he was buying into it. All I could do is laugh and shake my head.

Says who? Sorry, I don’t think so. The proof is there. How else do you explain Portland beating BYU two days after losing to San Diego? and two days after BYU beats Gonzaga? Is BYU really that up and down? Just when you think they are getting it and have it figured out, they suck? Memo to SG - Portland is not even a decent team, they are below .500, lost to San Diego and are a bad team. Why, as Tom stated after sitting courtside, did the officials hate on KC? The wcc kisses Wiltjer’s booty over and over, and the BYU game proves it.

The proof is there, nobody needs faxes and written correspondence to prove it.

I agree with Fish, Hawks, and Tom. Something is fishy. I was at the Chiles Center Saturday to watch the debacle. BYU is reffed differently than other other team. Is it because we may leave the WCC? Because we are mostly white? Mormon? From a very socially and politically conservative school and religion? I say some of all of the above.

But…I say in football and basketball it is a 10 point margin each game that we must overcome. We didn’t play well enough on Saturday to overcome the “bias” margin. Tom is right that KC got fouled on several of his 13 missed shots - many near the rim with significant contact. It was travelling on Wintering with 20 seconds left.

But in spite of all that, I say we lost because of two reasons: the letdown effect after the Gonzaga win…kind of like how flat the Seahawks came out yesterday. It’s difficult to win a nail-biter on the road then play well directly after that. Also, we got nothing from Chatman, Seljaas, and very little from Emry. If any of them are “on,” we are very hard to beat. I felt bad for Chatman. He had tons of fans there as he’s from 30 miles away north of Vancouver, WA.


I explained it simply with support of a former player, a coach and former NBA player. Kids, especially our immature ones, weren’t able to compartmentalize the win over GU and come out with the same intensity against PU. They lacked concentration shooting the ball. They got lost on defense allowing 3 of their players to score 20+ points!
Coach Rose said after the GU game he was worried about this happening and it did. The refs didn’t make BYU play badly. The devil didn’t do it :slight_smile:

Why does there have to be some conspiracy against Mormons for a team to play poorly after a big win? Why does there have to be a big conspiracy against Mormons for the other team to shoot out of their minds against a team playing flat after a big win? What you guys are doing is making excuses for poor behavior (play). I’m glad Rose doesn’t fall into that trap because if he did he would lose all control over his players.

Grasshopper - Were you at the game on Saturday? Did you see Dave Rose absolutely flip out and walk out onto the court after the non-travelling call on Wintring? I’m sure Coach Rose would agree 100% with my theory. Go ask him if BYU is reffed differently than other teams, such as the Univ of Houston team he played for in the 1980’s.

But of course, Rose isn’t going to talk about it. I agree it would make it worse if he did dwell on it. But don’t say that Rose doesn’t believe that BYU gets hosed because I’m sure he knows that we do.

To help you understand, think back to Michael Jordan in the 80’s and 90’s. Officials’ motives were different, but the result was the same in that when MJ goes flying to the basket and gets bumped by a stationary Bill Laimbeer, you better believe that MJ will get that call. Is it a conspiracy? Is it big business? Are humans flawed? Yes on all accounts. You probably think Sepp Blatter, the FIFA President, is an innocent man because he says he is.

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Were you at the Gonzaga game? Was Few out there complain veamently on just about every call? The two Austin involved calls at the end of the game? I don’t know any coach that doesn’t scream foul on referees every game. For the same reasons you gave concerning their human frailties like they aren’t very good in the WCC. To throw in the Mormon/BYU conspiracy just doesn’t work and it looks as bad as Utah’s complaint against us.
As far as the NBA, that’s rediculous too. It’s called bad loser syndrome :slight_smile: