Decent first half vs. St. Mary's

but it needs to be said - if you don’t allow a bench to develop during the pre league games they won’t be ready to fill in the missing parts.

thawk said it more than once and it is obvious that Beo can be an asset to this team but he wasn’t given the time early in the season to develop better chemistry with the LP3 juggernaut and it shows. I won’t talk about Dastrup because nobody here thinks he is any good. I’ll just say the way he has been handled is a mistake.

St. Mary’s shot lights out and BYU is only down 8 so there are some positives here. Emery hitting some shots but out of control too much, Haws slow getting started, Mika and Childs doing fine. Bryant actually looks okay for not having played in a month and a half. Kaufusi and Shaw are total non-factors. That about covers it.

Good luck in the second half, a win is possible. Last thing here… I didn’t like seeing Bennett walking off the floor with the officials into the same locker room… it may be a high school gym but that looks bad.

BYU tried to make a couple runs, officials shut it down. Key momentum killer was the offensive foul on Bryant and now St. Mary’s will shoot free throws to win the game with the help of Nick Emery and his ill advised bombs from Jimmer range. Did I say Jimmer?

It’s too bad that Emery and Haws can either help this team or really hurt them at times. Not sure if anything is going to change this season…

Well BYU played an okay game but they just aren’t as good as the top two teams in the wcc. The only thing left is to play for third place and a NIT bid because the wcc, even with two top 25 teams, isn’t getting 3 ncaa bids.

But see Jim. Playing a team that doesn’t miss shots is hard to beat. The second half we got it down to 5. We just didn’t keep playing team ball.

See what happens when we play them in Provo. We are playing against many teams that are experienced upper classman. Relax.

Excuses and more excuses. What is it with the “experience” nonsense? Gonzaga and St. Mary’s will still play team basketball and good defense next year and the year after, etc. NOW is the time for BYU to get it figured out, not next season or the season after that.

Apparently playing defense is really hard too. It is hard to beat a team that makes wide open shots. That is how BYU beat LMU on Saturday… LMU missed wide open shots and blew a very winnable game.

It’s what we have been saying for years Jim, lazy recruiting. It’s a nice team with some good guys on it, but high schoolers from Utah, regardless of how they ranked nationally, still built their ranking vs playing in Utah and against kids in Utah, does not equal success in college. You can’t take a high school team, send them to college together and compete with a college team that is full of high school all stars from around the country. Fans who think it can, need to stop questioning why a program like ours can’t win the WCC, ever.

Playing more experienced talented teams isn’t an excuse. Relax. Next year dude :slight_smile:
Now, watching the game then looking at the stats, we only committed 3 turnovers. That must be a record. Same number of free throws made. 6-2 on steals. Only 4 less shots made. So, where did we lose? They made 5 more 3’s because they took 11 more three’s.
So, 4 of those extra shots made were 3’s. We need to move the ball more and get more three’s too. And we need to stop flying all over the floor on defense. We have gotten better at defense but against a top 20 team aren’t experienced enough yet. Maybe by February when we play them again in Provo :slight_smile:

Next year with these talented kids with experience they will win games like tonight. Must stay healthy.nas far as Utah, Devin Durrant and Fred Roberts played on some great teams. It’s the coaching. Frank Arnold would have this team in the sweet 16.

"It’s a nice team with some good guys on it, but high schoolers from Utah, regardless of how they ranked nationally, still
built their ranking vs playing in Utah and against kids in Utah, does not equal success in college. "

Since When did Jabari Parker play in Utah?

The Lone Peak team that these guys played on went against a lot of top high schools programs in the country… not just those teams in Utah KC…

in fact LP now has a national tournament that brings in some big named high schools…

I know you and Jim have this anti-lone peak thing going on, but at least do some research before you spout off.

I find it interesting that Coach K from Duke recruited all three of the boys… but yet, you think they are the issue…

Have you ever thought that maybe it is not the kids… but the coach?

I like Dave Rose, but I do not think he is the man to take it to the next level, just like Bronco was not able to elevate the football program to the next level… great coaches, but I do not think either them had what it took to put us on a national stage…

that is my opinion, so it not worth very much.

I have no idea why you even watch BYU sports… all you do is ■■■■■ and moan about the teams, negative about the players, about the coaching, about the officials, about the fans, about the posters on this site… Geez man, give it a break… because in the end, BYU sports is not that all that important in life.

I can see you know everything about basketball Jim… but if you think have several key players fresh off missions, or new to the program does not have an affect on “Winning”, then maybe you need to brush up on your understanding of “rebuilding year”… Duke has them, NC has them, Kentucky has them, etc, etc, etc.

Personally, I do not think it is the players, I think it is the coaching and I do not believe Rose can put the team over the top…

Folks, take a look at the venue of the mighty St Marys gaels. The student section is the area below the signs that read “Gael Force.” Probably 50% of the people in the upper level beyond the sign were cougar fans. So, how full would this arena be without BYU fans? I guess that’s why a team ranked 19th in the polls plays in such a small arena. To be fair, classes aren’t in session yet so that probably affected attendance. Still, with a student enrollment of 4,257, this arena is probably plenty big. Unfortunately for BYU, the size of the home arena or the number of students enrolled don’t correlate to how good you are!

Ultimately, the way a team plays falls back on the coach. Maybe you are right about Rose not being the coach to take a team to the next level. I listened to Cleveland talk about the game and he pointed out that this group of players have been together for 3 years and play very unselfishly and play the best team defense that BYU will see in the WCC. Why isn’t BYU able to play that way? Cleveland pointed out that, although BYU actually played pretty well, maybe they needed to get hit in the mouth to realize what it takes to elevate their game to the next level. Positive spin? Maybe, but there is no denying that this team lacks experience. I just hope that the Rose has a good system of offense and defense and that it will all come together soon. Otherwise, I hope he is smart enough to see what other teams are doing and makes adjustments to his own system.

Being at the game, I had a few observations:
Blocking out on defense–St Mary was excellent at blocking out. It was difficult to get any offensive rebounds. BYU gave up some easy baskets because they didn’t block out well.

  1. Elijah Bryant. You’ll notice that when Mika was in the game, Bryant tried to get him the ball as a first option. He tried to be much more aggressive on offense when Mika was out. He probably pressed too hard. On a positive note, I was impressed with Bryant’s athleticism and ball handling. On the 1-3-1, he had the assignment on top. Due to his length and jumping ability, the guards had to loft the ball over him which slowed down the passing and actually gave the defense a chance to reposition as the ball moved. Haws was worthless when he played the top. He hardly put his arms up and the Gaels were able to make quicker passes that got the defense out of position. I think Bryant will develop into a key defender and scoring option. He just needs to play smarter.

  2. St Marys was a great passing team and could move the defense well with sharp quick passing. They were really good at dribble penetration at times to draw the defense and then finding the open man for a wide-open shot. The BYU defense didn’t keep their hands up in the passing lanes and just made it to easy to move the ball around. I normally like the way Emery plays defense because he stays low and stays in front of his man. Against the Gaels, Emery was so easy to pass over that it was as if there was no one there at all. Yes, you need to guard the drive but with a great passing team, you need to get your hands up in the passing lane to make it harder to move the ball.

I suppose everyone will have a different take on the game and what went wrong but I’m hoping that Steve Cleveland was right and that BYU will learn a lot from this game and keep developing.

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Remember Dave Rice, before and after we didn’t have him we struggled. Jimmer days, we did very well with both coaches. I can see our players going to do well moving forward, just be patient. We will never going to be like those Elite schools (ie Duke) and that is the way it is. Last night game was painful seeing smc making those shots on almost every possessions. And I am surprised our players didn’t get many fouls (except LJ). We lost to a good team and just move on and hope we can get better and get them at our MC.
I also can’t stand people talking about NCAA/NIT talk stuff. Just finish strong and then talk about wcc tournament after we play GU (Feb 25th).

Thanks for the live report! My 25 year old son and I watched the game together. We were basically tied when Mika came out; we looked at each other and said, “here we go.” Bryant forced two or three straight possessions and we went into zone defense. The result? A 13-0 SMC run. Worse, Rose knew it was happening and DIDN’T CALL A TIME OUT TO GET MIKA BACK INTO THE GAME! The run was at 7 or 8 points when Mika got off the bench and over to the scorer’s table, but SMC scored on 2 or 3 more possessions before Rose FINALLY called a time out. I thought that was a key moment. It was PAINFUL watching SMC dissect our zone. You were at the game, but the ESPN guys must have commented AT LEAST a dozen times in the second half (all while we were in zone) that SMC had wide open shots on every possession. To me it looked like a combination of unselfish offense, good shooting, and a terrible decision by Coach Rose to play zone. We are bigger, faster, and more athletic than SMC–why we would play zone against them is completely mystifying to me. I’m glad to hear Bryant looked good in person. Especially with Davis gone, we really need Bryant to be good if we are going to be any good.

I was thinking the same thing when Mika went out. Rose has been emphasizing the need to get the ball down low to Mika as the first option. I assumed he went out to catch his breath. Mika doesn’t hold back when he plays and I’d be surprised if he were able to keep up that level of intensity for a whole game. As you have already mentioned, that is where we really miss Davis. Davis could seal off his guy and catch the ball down low almost as well as Mika. Plus, he was a good passer. We were all hoping that Childs could be a threat down low. He didn’t have his best game last night. So, when Mika went out, this team seemed lost. The SMC perimeter defense was very good so it wasn’t like our guards were giving up open shots. I agree with you that we needed Haws and Emery to create their own shots. I suspect Rose told Bryant to be aggressive on offense. That’s okay but he just needs to learn to pass out to the open guy when he dribble penetrates…just like Collinsworth did last year…

I agree with those who are concerned with the coaching side of things. Can someone tell me when was the last time we looked really good as a team at either end of the floor. Don’t say during the Jimmer years because he was mostly a one man show with a little help from Davis and Emery. But it was mostly an improvised offense.

For me, I think Arnold and possibly Reed were the last coaches that actually had real good offensive sets that got guys open. We don’t get guys open on the perimeter through great passing or penetration - only by accident for the most part. Too many of the “let’s throw it to Mika and hope he can do something with it or time is running out and guarded or not, it’s time to chuck it” offense. I saw great offensive execution from SM last night and Gonzaga is the same. Our current staff does not, and never has had, great plays and execution - despite having some very good players individually.

And for those who say wait until next year, look at SM and Gonzaga this year and see where their players come from and then tell me where the great coaching is at. We have a nice guy but very average coach and never mind the current assistant coaches, who bring nothing to the table.

Rose’s claim to fame is winning 20 games plus each year. Well, put our team in a power conference and that streak would end badly immediately. That streak would end season 1

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100% agree

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100% agree. Guy Lewis ball does not beat Few or Bennett ball

1-3-1 defense in a Rose system equals 100% score rate for the other team. embarrassing.