Bronco may have a point about BYU fans over reaction to the outcome of a football game.
I loved everything about Bronco, until he started Riley Noodlearm Nelson. That is when I became critical, and I think that is what started it for most people. I think fans need to be critical to a point. We don’t want our fans to become like the Cubs fans of the 20th century, when you expected the team to be mediocre. but still came to the games.
Lavell had it easy compared to Bronco. BYU was a laughing stock before Lavell arrived. BYU fans have expectations now. Bronco is enjoying his new job because it came with no expectations from the fans. I’m happy for him and the rest of the coaches that they are winning.
Look at the coaches who followed John Wooden. No national championship and they would get run out of town by alumni.
Not sure what is more balanced. He never had to be the player’s bishop. That was his choice. But, he got to be a member missionary and fulfill his duties. Now, he’s more balanced because he can cuss and swear and not be a member missionary.
“In a captivating 19-minute interview, Mendenhall admitted he’s enjoying being under less scrutiny — including at church on Sundays, and especially after losses — and that his life has a better balance now that he’s moved on from Provo to Charlottesville.
In particular, the LDS coach likes that football and his faith aren’t intertwined like they were at his previous place of employment, a university owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Exactly! That is what I’ve been saying for years. The only reason that BYU and the honor code are so intertwined is because BYU insists that it be, even though all facts and evidence show that both BYU and the LDS Church are worse off by this stubborn resistance to re-evaluating this irrational decision that goes back to the 60’s, a culture that doesn’t exist anymore. In 2017, long hair certainly isn’t a sign of rebellion, yet BYU policy is based on the irrational assumption that somehow it still is. Likewise, can’t we figure out yet from past experience that policing people’s personal behavior is not practical, effective or even moral? College students aren’t children, and treating them as if they are is counterproductive. It also restricts the recruiting pool to a degree where BYU simply can’t compete on the national stage. The honor code is lose, lose lose. It’s not rational, practical or effective at achieving the goals BYU understandably wants to achieve.
So why this stubborn insistence on the part of most LDS people on carrying on this soviet style policy? I honestly don’t get it. It just seems like a failure of imagination. If BYU ran an experiment where they decided to let its students determine for themselves how they should behave (you know, exercise the free agency they claim to respect) for even two years, they would accrue benefits such that they would never go back to the irrational system they currently insist is somehow necessary.
I don’t think you have a clue what free moral agency is about. But you should recognize that “freedom” doesn’t come without order. Without order, there is chaos which restricts freedom. So, free moral agency doesn’t work without laws or commandments in the case of God’s kingdom. And, laws and commandments don’t work unless there are punishments pertaining to the laws and commandments.
So, I ask you and Floyd, what HC rules do you want to see eliminated that would promote an LDS environment? Hair? Sexual promiscuity? Marijuana? Alcohol? Foul language?
For members, I will ask this question. If we get rid of the HC and let BYU become like any other secular college with respect to morality, will BYU become as bad or worse than other colleges and why?
I always liked Mendenhall. He never offended me in the least and I thought he had no choice but to start Nelson over Heaps when Heaps took a step backwards his sophomore year. He just never produced in 2011 and the season was headed to the dumpster when the change was made. Nelson’s only problem was that he was injury prone. He didn’t have a good arm but when he was healthy he moved the chains and put points on the board.
I read the article about Bronco, loved it, and I am very happy for him. I hope he has great success at Virginia. I wonder if there will ever be another Lavell Edwards at BYU. Lavell’s glory years were from about 1979-1985 and after that Lavell’s teams only reached the level of those years once in 1996. Other than the era from 1979-1985 Mendenhall’s record is very comparable to Lavell’s. If you look at Bronco’s record from 2005-2015 it is every bit as good as Lavell’s last 11 years from 1990-2000.
Let’s compare the records:
W 99 L 43
bowl record 6-5
conference championships 2
Record against Utah 3-7
1990 - 10-3
bowl record - 2-5-1
record against Utah 6-5
conference championships won or shared 6
To further analyze the last 11 years of Lavell’s career and the 11 years of Bronco’s career you could say Bronco’s bowl record was better because he generally played weaker teams in bowl games than Lavell did. His record against Utah was worse because Utah was better during Bronco’s tenure than they were the last 11 years of Lavell’s career. Lavell won more conference titles in part because he had more opportunities since Bronco’s last 5 years were spent with BYU as an independent. I would also say that BYU had tougher competition in the Mountain West with some of the great TCU and Utah teams that played there the last few years the Y was in the conference.
You have to give Bronco his due. It was as good under Mendenhall as it was under Lavell if you take away the glory years that really ended 32 years ago. In fact his 11 year winning percentage is better than Lavell’s last 11 years. I think the strength of schedule would be very comparable during those 11 year stretches.
Lavell was a great coach based on the totality of his career but BYU was not a perennial conference champion after 1985. Bronco doesn’t have a resume yet that would indicate he is a great coach. I think he is a very good coach.
BYU was already quite good from 1974-1978 and won or shared 4 conference titles during that 5 year stretch but they never beat anybody in a non-conference game that you could consider a good power 5 team (as they are known now). BYU became a nationally ranked team in 1979 when they finally beat a nationally recognized program at Texas A&M. With the exception of 1982 they were in the final top 25 every year from 1979- 1985… After 1985 it has been hit and miss no matter who the coach was.
I am not disparaging Lavell in any way. He is deserving of his hall of fame status and every honor he has ever been given. If you look at his record he won a national championship, numerous conference titles and dominated Utah until his last 11 years… Part of the reason people were unhappy with Bronco is because he quit beating Utah and that really wasn’t his fault because Utah has been much better since about 2003 than they ever were when Lavell coached.
So based on this statement, you are saying there is no other place to promote the LDS environment?
For your information Scott, the HC is NOT DOCTRINE nor is it policy… it what a President wanted the students to live by.
I think some of the issues like length of hair, clothing (Should remain modest, but maybe be a little less stringent on wearing of Levi, etc) should be reviewed and changed… My opinion…
Outside of that, I think the “Administration” of the HC, should be equal for all students, not one for the regular student and one for the athletes. I know for a fact that if a student has a moral issue (Not sex) that BYU will refer them to their bishops, Athletes are suspended because they are “highly visible”.
I just want “Fairness” in Judgment as the Savior taught.
And what you wrote is all fair. So, what’s the beef?
I bet if you dig a little into the establishment of the HC I’m 100% confident the First Presidency was in on the establishment of the HC.
I started school at the Y 1979 and graduated 1985. Got married 1984 but my wife careless about football
1979 - 1985 were the glory days including BYU Basketball! It was a blast all around including my education there.
I hate to agree with your sermon SG, but I generally agree with your post in response to Mike H. If BYU removed the HC and other restrictions like Mike H says there would be no need for a BYU. We all should know what Brigham Young told Karl Mazur to not even teach the ABC’s without teaching the Gospel to the BYA.
Being that BYU trains many members in LDS doctrine, if the HC is shelved, I believe BYU would become worse in all aspects than any other college. Satan works hardest on attacking anything associated with the Lord’s Church.
fcare you serious?
If BYU does away with the HC they are going to become worse?..
first of all, the HC does not teach doctrine(I.e. facial hair is forbidden), it is a standard BYU wants the students to live by.
the gospel classes yo take at BYU is where you learn the doctrine, they have had some really good teachers down there to do that (Nibley to mention one).
If the HC went away… nothing would change, except maybe men wearing facial hair because to go to BYU, you would still live the standards all members of the curch are expected to live.
you still missed my point about the HC… it issue is in the administration of the infraction when it comes to players.
BY also taught us that learning of all things ( science, biology, etc.) is important in this life…
The reason why the HC was put in was to combat the degeneration of our worldly society working its way into BYU and the Church as a whole. So, if it went away, I will side with the Brethren that it’s necessary for the Church schools. That the results will be more than beards and long hair.
I’ll also side with the Brethren that the punishment for high profile persons should be more than others. If not, everybody will think it’s okay to break rules they agreed to before attending. Which is another point. All students including athletes know the HC and sign their names to live according to the rules.
I could be wrong, but my guess is facial hair is a relatively minor qualm outsiders have with the honor code. My guess is sex, drugs and alcohol are the bigger issues for them.
-I’m all for updating the HC to better fit doctrine to policy to regulations for our situation. Beards look professional to me…
-I’m all for making students and athletes equal before the almighty HC office. Suspending a kid from his job, that’s effectively what football is for athletes, seems silly.
-There must be consequences for breaking the rules. I don’t care what they are so long as they’re tough and enforced.
-I’m up for making any student publicly apologize if the offense was made public for whatever reason and if the punishment needs to be visible, I’m up for that too. But I think there are creative solutions possible.
That is the only time I really had a problem with his decisions. I used to get frustrated at Anae’s conservative play calling when the flow of the game dictated something different or it ended up costing the team very winnable games.
Totally agree with what you said here.
I don’t completely agree with everything you wrote but there is a lot of it that makes a lot of sense. I think there is some positive stuff that can come out of at least an adult conversation about this. I agree with the notion of the antiquated way things are done… I mean the church finally got past the whole caffeine issue.
I honestly agree with much of what you said.
This is one that we could start an adult conversation about…
If it’s hair we should require all hair removed. Bald as a billiard! Women too
Anae drove me crazy when he got predictable. But the odd thing is he occasionally had a brilliant game plan. I know sometimes it was a matter of half-time adjustments. If I can consistently call out plays…you have a problem.