Hero Ball. It starts at the Point

This article sums up our team for this year.


Darnell pointed out that BYU HAD ONE ASSIST THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF. just try to wrap your head around that one. He pointed out that there was plenty of blame to go around with Emery jacking up 24 foot 3s five seconds into a possession (never mind that he is 1-18 from 3 in the last 2 games) or Fischer going 3-14 but the blame lays in your senior point guard’s lap.

End of subject

No real leader out there.

I have always been bothered by KC at the point. I am beyond that now. He will only be removed from the point when the last game of the season is finished and his eligibility has expired. Hopefully we will make the NIT to give our younger players court time. However, a potentially bigger problem is emerging from the BYU basketball program. That problem being an extremely good athlete, Nick Emery. I have noticed as the season has gone on that his persona and attitude on the court has intensified. The swipe at the Ute guard wasn’t that big of deal to me, but the relative cockiness and lack of a team first attitude is starting to creep into the play of the team. It will be interesting to see how he interacts with Bryant or Haws next year, but I am worried that Emery might have issues that will keep BYU from reaching its potential over the next 4 years. Rose will have to show him who the boss is, or we will have other on court issues that include not winning games that we should. I am hoping that I am wrong, but he just seems to be an unsettling influence and a selfish player. Usually, it take a few years to have an attitude develop where a player thinks he is simply better than other players on the team and therefore entitled to do what he wants, but Emery has a “senior” attitude of entitlement as a freshman. Worried in WA!

Emery will be just fine. Two bad games do not make a season and it must be frustrating being on a team that has a power forward as a point guard. TJ and Bryant are point guards. Come to think of it, When was the last time BYU had a great point guard?

We were talking about this way before the media came up with the term, “Hero Ball”

Hero ball doesn’t mean selfish. It means in crunch time there are some who should take the pressure shots and some that should not if at all possible. As time goes on, you will want Emery to be one that should take those shots. Not for the glory. But to win the games.

It’s become apparent that fans no longer want early offense like in the past. They want a more deliberate pass the pall 5 or 6 times before taking a shot. No more fast breaks and hero ball I guess.

I simply think Rose should implement some basic rules. No more instant offense or ride the pine. Slow the game down and bore people to death. I guess then everyone will be happy?

Once again… and I did my best to keep from talking about it, you stand alone in your assertion about what constitutes selfish basketball. Everyone, from fans to coaches to media and guys who follow the team closely has commented about the sometimes selfish nature of this team. Some call it hero ball, some call it lack of team chemistry, some call it entitlement… all of these involve some form of selfish basketball. I’m really sorry you don’t get it. Your lack of comprehension and attempt to redefine what everyone knows to fit your convoluted understanding leaves you floating in the middle of the ocean with no rudder or sail.

I don’t think anybody said anything about not wanting early offense. If you enjoy watching Emery jack up off balance 25 foot 3 point shots resulting in 1-18 hot streaks then I guess that is what you like to see. Fischer has done the same from time to time. Of course they are “trying to win games” but they too often forget that there are 4 teammates out there on the floor that can help with that.

It’s interesting how you can’t see the most obvious of things at times.

You are trying to have it both ways. You want a fast pace running early offense so long as Emery or Fischer aren’t involved. Rose has given them the green light.

When they don’t have the chance to shoot quickly, that’s where the problem exists. But then Rose has that weave which I don’t like. All it does is get them tired so they don’t play better defense. It also doesn’t get anyone open. And it leads to bad shots.

Where on earth did you get that idea? because I suggested that sometimes they take ill advised shots too early in the clock? No, I want them involved but they need to learn when the right time to shoot is there and when it isn’t. I have stated COUNTLESS times that Fischer has improved in that area from the beginning of the season to now. He seems smarter and more willing to be patient and selective with his shot attempts. Unfortunately Emery hasn’t done that yet. He has been erratic frequently and particularly lately. He is impatient and selfish at times.

Once again I have explained my reasoning and logic, something I’m sure everyone understands except you. :worried:

Why does impatience equate to selfish? How do you make that leap?

You are the one that made the leap, not me. It all begins with comprehension and I would need to break it down for you once again into the simple 1+1=2 but I have tried that before and it didn’t work. Impatience is certainly an aspect of selfishness but there is more to it than that… and I SAID AS MUCH! I said he is “smarter” and being dumb creates selfishness. He is “selective” and that relates to selfishness. I have mentioned NUMEROUS OTHER CHARACTERISTICS that contribute to selfish play as well. Not making the extra pass for a better shot, forcing shots, not passing to an open player closer to the basket and settling for a low percentage 25 footer are all factors.

Once again it is the big picture that you don’t see… and that has always been a problem. Only you can adjust or change your ability to see everything instead of taking two things and asking how they are connected… I can’t do it for you.

I know everyone is pretty down on the team right now but in spite of the latest loss, I really don’t think you can characterize KC’s play as selfish. I think he’s outstanding in every aspect except for shooting. KC would have had a lot more assists had guys been able to knock down shots. I just about yelled at Kyle Davis when KC found him all alone under the basketball and gave him a pass that bounced off his chest because he had his hands down. That was an easy assist that went down as a turnover. When guys are struggling to hit shots, KC tries to attack the basket and get to the line. The refs called KC for an offensive foul when his defender flopped as KC backed him down. KC hardly challenged again after that knowing the refs were going to reward flopping. I do agree that it might be effective to move KC to the 4 position and let him post up his defender. KC is at his best when he is around the basket and would be a terrific post threat.

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Just to clarify Glenn, the characterization of selfish play is not something that happens every game or all the time. If you try to isolate a couple of plays and then try to explain why they were not "selfish " plays, it is too easy to do. However, looking at the factual stats (1 assist in the 2nd half for example) and combine that with other things, like perhaps forcing a drive to the middle that is not there or taking an ill advised 3 point shot when a better shot might be available to someone else… those combined factors are things that would lead to the exhibition of selfish play.

I am not saying that is what happened in this particular game with KC. I can’t say that because I didn’t see the second half of the game. Also, losing a game doesn’t necessarily mean selfish play was involved. but losing a game by one point to a weaker team, while throwing up a variety of poor shots, not passing the ball, etc. might mean that.

It is no secret that Rose, media and fans have ALL noticed this team has a problem with one, two or three guys thinking they can or will do it all and not relying on the help of teammates to make it happen.

And this is what conspiracy theorists do. It’s not all the time. Only at their convenience when they cannot explain things or understand the complexities involved.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the approaches to conspiracy theories. They are entirely different issues and topics for discussion. No… what this is… is more related to understanding how the game is played and how it could be played differently based on players tendencies and personal styles.

I really feel bad that you have such a strong mental block with this. The coaches, the media guys that follow the team closely and even some of the players themselves have all acknowledged these issues throughout the season. EVERYONE except the lone wolf, Scott Gavenman. If it makes you feel better to be in that position then good for you and full speed ahead. I just don’t get it.

I could say the very same things about your analysis… the characteristics of losing, missing easy shots, bad free throw shooting, etc. and how it only happens some of the time, not every game or all the time… you only use that at your convenience when you cannot explain things or understand the complexities involved. It’s a weak argument, especially when it is contrary to what everyone who watches the Cougars has talked about all season long.

Your potential for progress and growth is stunted by your inability to recognize and admit it…

I was at the game. Here is how I see things…Yes, the other guys have to knock down shots when the ball comes their way, that is a given. But KC’s ability to grind a player down until he is under the rim for a easy bucket is not the same as a quick point who blows by his guy and forces the other team to help defend, leaving a shooter wide open. None of BYU’s 3 were wide open shots, more like quick off balanced hurried shots.

You are correct when you agree that KC should play the 4 and be a finisher. I will say this. Fischer is the poorest passer on the team, followed by Davis. Either one of these guys, if they don’t shoot it are a 50/50 turnover when they try to pass. That is the dynamic of our team this year. But for these guys to lose 5 games to bottom feeders speaks to me as a lack of mental fortitude.

Nice try. But everyone sees your appetite for conspiracies. Some go with you but most still resist. And so my point is valid :innocent:

I agree that Emery should be playing the point. That alone can take away some of his shot attempts from outside. KC at the point and Fischer at the 2. That way, there are ample 2 man game opportunities with Emery quick enough to get into the lane and break down the defense as long as he passes to open players when they are open. But. The weave and standing around has to go.

As I play Seminary President this week, I have time to reflect on your words. I’ve come to the conclusion that my words are from a Journalistic prospective and yours from a pundits prospective. Her is why:
My prospective is to not have preconceived thoughts while I watch a game. I’m not looking for angles based on ideology or conspiracies that have been ingrained for years that I can’t tell they exist. Instead, I report on what I see and hear based on the facts. No spin.
You, on the otherhand, watch a game with this thirst to interpret what you see and hear in a way that supports your ideology and conspiracy thirst :wink:
Therefore, that’s why my journalist mindset is also less received that your theories. Fans want to rationalize losses and are drawn to conspiracies because it’s more fun and
takes away the loss dealing of losing :rage:
Your humble friend and servant :pensive:

First off it is called PERspective and if you had been reading what all of the “journalistic” writers (fans and those who follow the team) have said this year, you might change your “prospective”. With regards to the play of the team this season, I had ZERO preconceived notions about how they would play, how successful they would be, etc. I’m not “looking for things” either. Anyone who actually reads what I post and more importantly UNDERSTANDS it, would know this. That is why I have given players props when they have adjusted their game to a more team oriented playing style. Now having said that, I can point out the fact that you, yes YOU are the one that has a mental block when it comes to reading and comprehending others posts, namely posts that don’t agree with your own. This includes cougarfans here, “journalists” who follow the team AND coaches. Once you dig your heals in, you are incapable of understanding anything but your perspective, so much so that you edit everyone’s perspective to be contrary to your own, even when it might agree with yours. Frankly, it’s weird and serves no purpose other than to help you maintain your lone wolf position.

So while it is an interesting PERSPECTIVE that you opine, it isn’t actually very accurate and would likely be easier to understand if it were grammatically palatable. Stick to your guns, even when you are wrong… that makes a lot of sense. :unamused:

All good points and I agree. I think KC considers himself a point guard and wants to make an NBA team as a point guard so he’d prefer to stay put. I sometimes wonder if Rose is afraid to rock the boat and move KC out of that position. He could probably throw other teams off by moving his players around a bit but Rose probably hesitates trying drastic changes at this point in the season. The thing that strikes me about this team is the lack of consistent scoring. You aren’t going to have many assists and you aren’t going to win many games if you can’t knock down shots. We shot 34% from the field and 22% from the 3 pt line…at home!! Looking at the box score, you can see that we didn’t get the normal scoring production we are used to from KC. He was only 2-8 for the game with 9 pts in 36 minutes of play. That is subpar for him.

Yeah, there were a lot of stats that point to why the Cougars got beat by Pacific at home.

Emery fouling out and he and Fischer combining to go 3-15 from 3 point range. Chatman only playing 6 minutes. Zero offensive production from the bench. The FT shooting was okay at 77%, but Pacific was better at 86%. Free throws matter! Also, Pacific got 22 pts. from their bench… and they had more assists and rebounds.

Really bad loss for BYU at home.