Hmm... looks like somebody took the words out of my mouth

It’s nice to know there are others out there who see things like I do because not many people on this board agree with what I write. Post from Cougarboard that was apparently quoted on a radio program right after the St. Mary’s game.

"Some people won’t like this but after a fairly decent sample size, I’m ready to say that Nick Emery is just not that good. I know everyone has a sky is falling mentality after a game like this but I really haven’t arrived at this conclusion easily.

No one was more excited for Nick to come than me. I remember driving to Vegas to watch him play in an all star game 5 years ago. He got kicked out of the game for arguing with a ref. I was livid. I went up to the ref after and let him have it. I told the ref he made the game about him instead of the kids. As time as gone on I’ve come to realize that the guy who got thrown out for being a punk is pretty much the same guy 5 years later. Now I’d actually like to apologize to that ref.

I see progression from all our young players on our team. But I see regression from Nick. There are plenty of posts about his stats but he’s shooting around 29% from 3. His defense doesn’t justify him being on the floor. He’s not a great passer. He seems completely unaware of what a “good shot” is. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I really believe he hurts the team more than he helps it.

I doubt it will happen but I’d really like to see Rose recruit someone for his position on the team and bring Nick off the bench. I’m not saying Nick doesn’t have talent, but it’s in a dormant Carlino like state at the moment.

I don’t mind losing to Saint Mary’s. They are a good team. But there is no reason to lose like that. Some people high up need to ask some hard questions and make some tough decisions. Otherwise we probably get swept again by them next year."

None of the subs on the bench are better than Emery. So, unless they make tremendous improvements, Emery will start next year. And, Emery was about 50-50 good to bad games.

The point is that he showed no improvement. The ratio wasn’t 1:1 good and bad games. The problem is that he is part of the LP3 so nothing is going to change.

Nobody seems to understand that this group just isn’t that good, in spite of all the hype.

That’s your opinion. A poor one at that. Two of the three are back from not playing for two years. And they make the conference 1st team. Mika will be on some award list. Emery had his moments. Bryant is a great find. Childs is the real deal too. Hopefully we can get a transfer that can help out and have one of the subs make great improvements. Maybe Dastrup will improve too.
You don’t beat the #1 ranked unbeaten team by being average. There is something there. We need to:

  1. Get a lot stronger physically
  2. Work on basics both offense and defense. The increased strength would help greatly on quickness and speed.
  3. The offense scheme needs improvement.

Every single one of the LP3 has won conference honors.
Mika and Haws first team this year…Emery 2nd team last year…the WCC honors are voted on by the coaches who are not allowed to vote for their own players. Somehow the other coaches in the conference think that the LP3 would have been worth having for at least one year each…

That Emery was voted last year but not this year…says something…mostly I think that the nature of the BYU offense has changed . . .but also something about his performance too…

yep, those cougar board experts are so much more knowledgeable than othe basketball experts…

glad we can depend on them for accurate analysis…:scream:

As long as we are on sports analysis I find myself in line with your understanding:-)

People can say that BYU has mediocre talent all they want but there is no lack of talent on the BYU team right now. There was a lack of maturity and depth this year. The depth may have been ok if not for the injuries to the only two seniors. In Mountain West conference years the talent performed to expectations and in some cases better. Ever since entering the WCC BYU hasn’t performed up to expectations in my opinion. I am not sure what the issue has been. I don’t know if it is Rose or it is a problem on the assistant coach level but there are two many losses to teams they should never lose to and losing to St. Mary’s in the manner BYU did this year is baffling. How do you beat the number 1 team in the country and then get embarrassed by a fundamentally good team with only average physical ability?

I keep coming back to the same question. If Rose had passed on recruiting the Lone Peak trio what other 3 top 100 recruits could he have gotten instead? There used to be this guy who posted regularly here, who claimed to have inside dope from the AD office with all the latest juicy info that the press didn’t have, who was constantly accusing Rose of lazy recruiting. I will repeat that recruiting and talent aren’t the problem now. This year it was the talent not performing up to expectations. I think a lack of maturity had a lot to do with it. I doubt any rational BYU fan thought this team would make the final four, or even the sweet sixteen, this season. Most people outside the BYU bubble were predicting a NIT type season. I thought the team would make the NCAA and might even win a game but I never had any grandiose delusions about this season. My expectations for next year, and the next, provided all the talent sticks around, has been very high and I am still hopeful.

I was disappointed in a few of the losses this year. I thought they would beat St. Mary’s at home and would have never dreamed they would lose to UVU at home and lose to 3 WCC bottom feeders. BYU always loses to one of the bottom feeders every year but this year 3 was at least two too many. I consider anybody other than Gonzaga and St. Mary’s to be bottom feeders and losing to any of them to be a bad loss. That almost never happened to Rose in the MWC years. He beat the teams he was supposed to beat.

I am expecting an NCAA bid next year and at least a win in the tournament. There is no excuse for anything less based on the talent. BYU will have 5 top 100 recruits next year with at least a year of experience and all they need to do is play with a little discipline on offense and more effort on defense, If the coaches can’t get that then I will probably get on the bandwagon for a coaching change at least on the assistant coach level. I don’t think anybody was complaining about Rose when BYU was in the MWC. The drop in performance has come since joining the WCC. Somebody needs to step up and get them to play defense. They are capable of it as evidenced in a few games, particularly Gonzaga. Expectations should be high and talent should be expected to produce. Rose won a few championships before Jimmer became a superstar so I think the talent level in the WCC years has been as good as in the pre-Jimmer superstar years.

Dastrup needs to pick up his game and contribute and at least two bench players need to be developed who can come in at any time and play about 20 minutes a game without the team missing a beat. You need a solid 7 man rotation with 7 guys who can give you 20 or more minutes every game. Then you need two or 3 others who can play 5-10 minutes in certain roles, in certain games, and not hurt the team.

I try to be positive but it is frustrating because I don’t believe I am drinking blue Koolaid based on the talent level. Ever since Jimmer left I am of the opinion that the team has under performed. I keep expecting better than what is being produced and I don’t think the expectations are unrealistic based on the talent level.

I think they give 110% effort every game. In defense too. What I think is happening is the coaches don’t know how to coach defense because they brought in that NBA coach to explain things. They had a new defensive coach from LP that had no college coaching experience. It showed. I expect next year to be much better if the players get in the weight room and put on some serious muscle!

Well there is a perfect example of the blue Goggle problem. If anyone thinks that this team is giving more than 100% on defense they are part of the problem of low expectations. Haws can’t find a way to go over the top of a screen…Ever. He is a lazy lazy defender with almost zero basketball IQ on defense. Bryant is also a lazy defender and he has plenty of strength to do what needs to be done.

There are questions about how the bench can or can’t perform. They aren’t developed and despite Hoppers insistence that the bench can’t help this team, the fact remains that it isn’t the bench that stinks up the place. It is the Haws and Emery’s with help from Bryant and Childs on the perimeter who don’t defend. It is the offensive selfishness that comes and goes regularly and you have this team that can’t score. There is no drive and dish in this team. There is only drive and throw it up.

Haws is not a point guard. He is a 2. The problem is Emery is already at the 2. We need a point guard who can shoot from 3 and will drive and dish. Haws needs to go-to the bench and sub in for Emery. Bryant needs to be the 3. Do we have a pt guard on the roster? The more time TJ spends at the point the more BYU will grow stale and lose to teams they should beat.

Hopper, you have no evidence that the subs can’t perform. While we understand your opinion, it is just that, opinion. We wanted them to get playing time early in the season and be allowed to shoot. It didn’t happen. I said from the get go that this season would come down to how the bench was developed because the starters weren’t good enough to beat good teams without help from the bench. No one believed me except Jim. The vast majority of really good teams go 9 or 10 deep. Rose simply thought Hawa, Emery,Mika, Childs, LJ, Bryant and Davis would be able to win the WCC. I never thought that was possible. He let good players go to other schools to make room for his future stars and now we see that Mika does need a backup and Haws and Emery cannot lead this team to be a big winner. It won’t happen next year either. The one big positive is that the 7 ft kid will be back and I think he will be a player…If given playing time.

We need a point guard and I would try Beo. But you have to give him some confidence and 50% of the rope you have given Haws. If not we have to recruit one.

And if you put the bench in they quickly fall behind. They aren’t developed and it’s questionable that they have the skill level to get better. Time will tell.
There is no question they were trying on defense as hard as they could. But their technique and understanding of the college game is lacking. Not their effort. That is where the coaching stunk. Not their effort. If you can’t see or understand that then you have the blue goggles

Really? When did this happen during the season??

It is just so funny that you continually say that Haws and Emery and the other non defenders on the BYU team lack a knowledge of the college game. Defense is defense. Check out Chatmans freshman year defense. He seemed to get it. Frank Bartley got it. Frank Jackson seems to be getting it right now with Duke. You never go under screens at high level HS ball or at any level of college ball … Unless you are Haws who is used to getting away with it.

Freshman all over the country are getting defense better than almost all BYU defenders. You think Haws and Emery will just walk through the MC door next year and know how to play defense because they are 1 year older? They are over hyped and act like spoiled babies on the floor. There is no wonder the chemistry is terrible on this team. The rumors are coming out that both of these two treat certain teammates with contempt. Emery is a cancer and Haws is a cry baby who lets things that go wrong ruin his game…

How many freshman take 2 years off? Like just Mormons at BYU. Are you actually paying attention? Doesn’t seem like it… But you do have Hawks name :slight_smile:

You are so far off the mark it isn’t even funny anymore. How many times have you heard the best coaches, analysts and basketball minds talk about how defense is all about effort? If I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it hundreds of times. Apparently you haven’t heard that because you don’t acknowledge it.

The knowledge and understanding we are getting from the poster “thawk” is spot on. He was exactly right this season and we saw it over and over. All you did was make excuses. In fact, everyone else here has hinted at the same issues, they just aren’t as emphatic about it. You, on the other hand, keep making excuses or claim that the LP3, Bryant and Childs are great defenders. That has been proven wrong all season long.

Only a narcissistic personality disorder would prevent you from acknowledging that there are others who know more than you do and that their ideas and opinions might be accurate. thawk has nothing personal against any of the LP3 players or the other players on the team. I have said many of the same things but people think I have something against them. I don’t but I can’t help what others think. I happen to agree with thawk, I also happen to agree with Aro and Harold, Glenn and Fish, and others. I even agree with you occasionally but you are just flat out wrong on your analysis of the current state of this team. It’s a mess and beating Gonzaga only compounded the problem because it gave them this false sense of greatness… which led to a close win against LMU and another blowout loss to St. Mary’s. It isn’t a lack of experience or mission rust anymore. The problems are internal and with the team chemistry. That is the only answer for what we saw this season.

No… I’m shocked. How dare you accuse these superstars! They will never win on talent alone… it takes humility, maturity and a willingness to work hard. All things they should have learned on their missions for craps sake…

You need the skills too. You need the experience. It’s not all about effort. That’s just an easy cop out for lack of knowledge and understanding:-)

Narcissistic? You have 3 fingers pointing back at you… :point_down::grin:

At this level, it is all about the effort and there isn’t a whole lot of it from the players on this particular team. We’ve seen this team play good defense so we all know they can do it. Sorry… it is really all about the effort now.

Uggg!!! If that was it then every team would win 30. There would be no rating of athletes. All would be the same in every category.
Skill and experience develop from high school to college and from college to NBA. It’s not all about effort. Uggg…!!!