How the Big Boys Play

Football
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We have 7 4-star players on roster or committed to BYU. Most of them were recruited by big programs like Alabama, Texas, Oregon, Oklahoma, etc.

Here is a look at some of the players:
5-star
Kingsley Suamataia (BYU, Oregon, Arizona, Alabams, ASU, Arkansas)

4-star
Aisea Moa (BYU, Utah, Oregon State, USU)
Cody Hagan (BYU, Arizona, Stanford, AF, Army)
Jackson Bowers (BYU, Arizona, Washington, Alabama, Arizona State)
Harrison Taggart (BYU, Oregon, Arizona, Army, Air Force)
Ryner Swanson (BYU, Texas, Oregon, ARizona, ASU)

3-star
Siale Esera (BYU, UCLA, Arizona, California, Colorado)
JO JO Phillips (BYU, Boston College, California, Colorado)
Nason Coiemen (BYU, Princeton, Arkansas, Arizona, ASU)
Devoux Tuataga (BYU, Arizona, Nebraska, ORegon, California)

What HC comment? Please provide context.

Only thing I mentioned about Kalani was when he explained on Utah Sports program that each RM goes through a protocol to determine if they are ready to play?

The NCAA did away with JV teams… Not sure why, but it hurt BYU in the 80’s,

22

It’s hurting BYU now doing away with the JV’s. We should start a drive to reinstate it. It would help a lot. It would help a lot of schools.

HC was about the Honor Code, not Head Coach :sunglasses:

You are still trying to compare BYU’s recruiting to P5 school’s recruiting? I see it improving. Especially with LDS athletes. But not to the level of the elite P5’s in the Big12 and around the country. We have to have a better strategy with 3star athletes and return missionaries to build a deeper capable bench.

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Hopper, your idea of a JV league will never get traction because of the cost of it. I do think it would be a good idea to have a JV forum for you to go onto and hone your knowledge skills before you rejoin the varsity forum!

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I knew this was a below graduate forum when I joined. Now it’s been confirmed :man_student:

25

OK THawk your post literally made me laugh out loud.

I started this topic on news of A&M paying a $75 MILLION buyout to get rid of its coach with 7 years left on his deal for a team that is 4-3 in the SEC and coming off a 51-10 dismantling of Miss State (which ALSO FIRED ITS COACH after the game). A&M did it, as I said, because A&M will not accept mediocrity (PSS–last night the 5-5 Bills’ O looked sluggish and they fired the OC after the game). “Just OK” doesn’t fly with the Big Boys, much less getting repeatedly demolished.

I think it was Floyd who wisely commented that BYU has had 2 years to prepare for this, yet we are getting curb stomped. BYU’s players KNOW it. The coaches KNOW it. EVERYONE watching should recognize that BYU is no good. The coaches are lucky they work for BYU and not for somebody like A&M who won’t take mediocrity. If you take out the FAKE COVID SEASON, Kalani’s record at BYU is 50-37. Talk about BLAH.

Both Crowton and Kalani won big in their first season with inherited talent. Crowton was terrible for BYU and had a 53% winning percentage in 4 seasons. He simply didn’t win enough games to survive the off the field problems. After his first year, and not counting the fake season, Kalani is has a 54% winning percentage in 6 seasons. From a competitive standpoint, we are basically where we were 20 years ago under Crowton–mediocre records and lots of embarrassing blowouts. No wonder lots of people want change.

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BYU will never be ran like the big boys. We have principals that we hold that the big boys don’t, though I think it would help football be more competitive if we did. If we did breaking from our principals then who are we? not BYU. Principles should be followed even when they hurt us. One of the problems BYU has always had is that with the standard we expect students to adhere to. we struggle to get the best talent, and we are always coaching up the talent that we have. that is what LeVall and Bronco did and what Crowton and Kalani have failed at. I don’t know how being in the BIG12 will change things, but because we will always have these standards and principles we will never operate like the big boys.

27

We are pretty much in agreement. Although, I hope we can get the 4star LDS kids to come to BYU more. Even if they don’t want to go on a mission. Glad to see someone else on here who doesn’t want to compromise standards.

Because we will mostly get the 3Star kids. We will have to train more of them up and be ready to get on the field. The injuries pile up partly because we ask them to do things that talent and ability wise is more than they are physically capable of. Things like quickness and flexibility. So, kids who show up on day one have to improve as well as the 1st stringers. That will take more coaches and strength flexibility agility trainers. If we have to go to our 3rd and 4th stringers, they have to be ready. Not sure if freshman and sophomores will be able to be ready enough.

28

People keep saying this, but as far as I know, there is no statistical data to back up that the HC hurts BYU recruiting.

I have listened to kids that is not a member of our faith say in the past that they like the environment BYU has (their moms agree), so they choose to come to BYU.

Just to list a few: Dewey Gray, Cody Hoffman, Curtis Brown, Jamal Williams, LJ Martin

LJ Martin had many options to choose from, but it was the people at BYU that ultimately made the difference in his recruitment (direct quote).

Are we going to get the Super 5-star kid? No, but it is not because of the HC, but rather if BYU give them a best chance to get to the NFL.

What I do know is that when Jamal Williams got into trouble (drinking) and left BYU he chooses to come back to BYU because of a commitment he made to his uncle.

I will say this, the enforcement of the HC and how reporting of violations is done, could be modified a bit. Sorry, but there are too many students who feel they should judge others and report violations as quickly as possible.

From Jamal Williams perspective:
After 5 Years of BYU and Its Honor Code, Jamaal Williams Is Free. What Now? | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

From Margin Hooks Perspective:
Monson: A former BYU receiver, a black non-Mormon, urges school to recruit African-Americans and ‘teach, help and forgive. Don’t punish.’ (sltrib.com)

When Edwards coached, the HC was not enforced like it is today. It was left up to the HC to deal with it. The most famous non-LDS player during Lavell time was Jim McMahon who routinely broke the HC rules.
When Bateman became President of BYU he changed how the HC was enforced and basically allowed snitches to be the new HC patrol. He also changed that HC had NO ENVOLVMENT in monitoring HC violations with sports teams.

As for coaching, Lavell was never really great at coaching himself (go check his record at Granite High School), what made Lavell great was his ability to connect to players and find great assistant coaches like Holmgren, Scovil, Chow, French, Whittingham, etc. that had the expertise in their assignment and let them run with it.

Someone once asked Roger French why he didn’t leave BYU to become a HC somewhere, his response was in essence “why would go somewhere else when I have freedom to coach how I want here without all the headaches of being a HC”.

29

Define what and who sets those standards?

The only standard I go by is 1) How does Lord view me and 2) Am I temple worthy.

The Lord lets me know in no uncertain terms when he is not happy with me or my direction. What other people think of my worthiness has no bearing in my life.

The HC over the year has become a tool for snitches and over exuberant administration, which is now gratefully being reeled in by the BOT.

So please leave the judging of other to the one who actually knows what is keeping with standards.

30

I have no idea what BYU principals would be broken to fire a coach mid season? None that I know of. The coach still gets paid his contract ……. It is a tradition and not a principle that we are talking about. They are hired to do a job at a successful level. If they don’t perform the job correctly there is nothing that would violate a BYU principle by letting them go.

If you don’t let bad coaches go, your program will suffer even more and foreclose recruiting opportunities! It sends the message that the school is fine with below average performance and willing to put up with it.

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THawk, I think it’s not even a question of tradition, much less principles–I think it’s just money. BYU hates the thought of paying a coach who no longer has to come to work, even though the guy keeps breaking stuff every time he comes to work. But I agree with you that firing a coach has NOTHING to do with ethics, principles, morals, or for heaven’s sake, it especially has nothing to do with the LDS church. To me, it’s just a personnel and financial decision.

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Floyd, I hereby “like” this message 100 times.

33

So, as a temple recommend holder, if you see an athlete drinking alcohol, smoking pot or tobacco and having sexual relations, you have to go to a bishop or someone to ask them if that is a violation of the HC or Church standards? And, you shouldn’t speak up?

I was taught that when you raise your hand for a sustaining vote, that if you know something that should be brought to the leadership by raising your hand against the calling. Is that been changed? I had that opportunity and didn’t do it. Instead, I embarrassed the heck out of a star player on one of our teams. He wanted hit me but I’m good at it. His dad was a GA. So he just left embarrassed. So, did I do the wrong thing when I didn’t raise my hand?

34

So, you are saying President Oaks wasn’t a good school President? We all heard the rumors. Back then, we didn’t have phones with cameras with us. So, you needed real evidence. Why do you keep demeaning Lavell Edwards? Yes, he was a great delegator. He did that with the football class I took for my degree. He showed up the first class and the last class. His assistants were excellent. Frank Arnold was at the basketball class most of the time. When he wasn’t, Courtney Leshman was. And, Arnold was available for anyone to walk in his office and ask questions. In fact, before it was announced, he told our class with a big smile that Devin Durant and Fred Robert’s chose BYU.

So, Lavell is revered for giving assistants a long leash. But Sitaki isn’t. That says a lot.

35

Floyd, thank you for your EXCELLENT post. Super well thought out and you raise some points we should all be thinking about, and things that I hope the new BYU president is thinking about.

Let’s change this policy and instead of kicking out the “offender,” let’s kick out the snitches. I love what Harmon wrote in that article–let’s make it a true honor code, instead of some formal metric where one student thinks he/she has some obligation to rat on somebody else.

In all seriousness, I’m extremely close with one of the people deeply involved with everything we discuss on this board. I can tell you that the athletic department is working HARD to created a more inclusive environment at BYU, and GROUND ZERO of that is how the HC is interpreted and enforced, and how the HC affects both recruiting and student life for non LDS athletes and black athletes. I know many of the people working on this and they are working to get it right in a way the President and BOT will support.

Roger French. Wow. What a legend. Can you imagine how French is rolling over in his grave watching this BYU debacle of a line? Dude was a true old school firebrand with a genius mind.

Some may think that to play with the Big Boys we need to somehow compromise our integrity or morals or whatever else; that’s just simply not the case. There are plenty of Jamaal Williams and Margin Hooks who will come to BYU. But we need to recognize that D1 is now a Pay to Play league, and if we want the INCREDIBLY POSITIVE recognition for the church and for BYU that comes with a high level football program, we need to pay for it. It’s not an ethics thing; it’s an economic one.

36

Did you say something :face_with_monocle:

Well, it’s called a contract. Of course, if it’s clear that an employee who is not living up to their contract they can be fired. But, as an employer, you better have proof. If Arod isn’t doing everything required to get good execution on the field, sure they could be fired if there’s enough. Does BYU and/or the Church want a lawsuit? There are labor laws even in college sports.

37

First Hopper, you weren’t asked to sustain any BYU football players in a calling were you?? Didn’t think so. The Honor Code at BYU isn’t a calling. It isn’t even a temple recommend. Secondly, if the church were governed by so and so telling people what they saw or thought they saw then we wouldn’t have church councils right? But we do because there has to be a court to determine outcome and circumstances etc.

Lastly members of the church will be judged, ultimately by the Lord and themselves. Not you or any other member or non member attending BYU or who used to attend BYU. Somehow I don’t think you will be in the position of judging when it is all said and done. Many of us will be happy you aren’t …. With your current attitude.

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Sometimes I question your mental ability. Paying someone their contract isn’t breaking the contract. The coaches who get fired at still paid the amounts due to them. The fact that they aren’t allowed to coach and hurt the program further doesn’t have anything to do with the payment of the contract.

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See Jimbo Fisher and Willie Taggart, two of the biggest hucksters to ever step on a football field.

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  1. Unless I have been given the mantel of a “judge in Israel” by one who holds authority, what other people do with their time is their business not mine.
  2. If It breaks the legal laws, then I will report that (like rape, child abuse, etc.)

There is a difference between sustaining someone who is being called to a position in the church and snitching to the HC office.

Question for you: "Are you 100% honest in all your dealing (personal and in business) with your fellow man (Temple question).

When someone ask you “how are you doing?” and you respond “Fine” even though you are having a horrible day. Is that not a lie? “Wo be unto the liar for he shall be thrust down to hell” (BOM).

For myself, I honestly can say “I am honest with my fellowman”, much to pain of my wife and kids.
because when someone ask me how I feel, I honestly tell them how I feel.