I saw that. How sad… and interesting that the movement is gaining strength in Utah, of all places.
Strange times we live in.
People in Utah remember these things. Cox has no spine.
I disagree strongly about Cox not having a spine.
It takes a spine to stand up to the far right idiots running the GOP in Utah.
Would you say the same thing about Cox if he Vetoed a “Gay” bill because he disagreed with the way it was done?
Cox wrote a 4.5 page veto, in it he explains why he vetoed the bill. One of those reasons that it put the Districts in a dangerous place to defend the bill in court.
He also explained that they need to rework part of the bill to pass legal muster.
The funny thing is that when the Legislature overrode the veto, but before doing it, they made some of the changes Governor Cox had issues with the bill.
Very brave Governor in my opinion.
Piting men who trans into girls to compete against girls is unfair.
Transgender golfer Mianne Bagger rips ‘male-bodied’ competitors in female sports (nypost.com)
Has nothing to do with being gay or whatever. A man has much larger lungs and muscle mass.
my point is about your comment about Cox.
Cox never said he supported trans people or he did not.
he said he did not like the way the bill was passed, it was a legal nightmare for district in courts and the State.
Cox does what our prophet has asked us to treat each other with kindness and love and it does not mean we have to approve the person life style.
I don’t agree with trans playing in girls sports, but i think there is a better way to solve the issue than the way the legislature did it.
that is all i am saying and Governor Cox
The problem I have with Cox is when he appeared
on camera with young kids talking about his preferred pronoun. The optics were terrible and it made him appear weak and pandering. I hoped when he vetoed the bill it was for reasons you explained. He could
have stated that he was opposed to trans men competing against women and that he would support a bill with some changes. I don’t live in Utah so I don’t know the whole story. I did read a comment he made
that the bill was divisive and he used some other language in his comment that appeared to be pandering in the MSN story I read online that was trumpeted on my internet homepage. Of course the far left crazies used his remarks to support the insane notion that mentally ill biological men competing against women is ok.
President Oaks’ comments in conference made
it clear what the Church’s position is on the trans issue. He was straight forward about it. The impression I get of Cox based on the video I saw and his comments on the trans bill is that he is weak. He may not be but my impression is that he is like
too many Republicans who care more about appearing to be inclusive than they do about their base.
Incidentally we have much more to fear from from far left crazies than so called far right crazies. They have much more power and the support of the vast majority of the media.
I also have issues with Mitt Romney. He voted for a Supreme Court nominee who is a far left crazy. I listened to a lot of the hearings so I didn’t come to my
conclusions by watching news. Romney voted against her when she was nominated as a federal judge. He marched with BLM. I have no problem with the idea that Black Lives Matter but the BLM organization is run by Marxists who admit they are Marxists and they use their fundraising to enrich themselves. They have been been front and center in fomenting riots. No Republican should ever do anything that leaves the impression they support that organization.
This kind of reminds me of GWB when 9/11 happened, a lot of the media took exception to the way he received the news and thought he did not care (read his book Decision point). When that was not the case at all.
In Cox’s case, the media portrayed what he did as you described, but the media also failed to mention that it was the “STUDENT” that was making a issue of the preferred pronoun, not Cox!
So much like GWB, Cox responded in a like manner, knowing that no matter what he did, he was going to piss off a lot of people.
Have you actually read what Cox wrote in his veto letter? It has to do more with the way it was passed and not about supporting Trans gender people.
What cracks me up is people point to the Apostles on “Stances” of social issues like Trans gender as way for them to justify their beliefs, but they also fail to mention the second part of those “stances” the part where Elder Oaks said “We must love and respect all people regardless of their stance on social issues”.
that is what Cox is doing, He may not agree with them, but he will love them and respect them for who they are, Children of God.
Sorry, maybe it because I am going through some personal struggles right now with how people think they can treat other people because they have an issue. Instead talking with the person respectfully and as an adult, they choose to be emotionally and verbally abusive about it.
So if I come across a bit terse, I apologize for that…
As for Romney, again I wish people would simply talk about issues, not political dialogue. You do realize that EVERY GOP senator that voted against her for SCOTUS voted FOR HER on the Federal bench? Right?
You say she is far left crazy, well with SCOTUS Nominees Barrett and Gorsuch the liberals thought they were “Far right Crazies”!
Neither party can actually vet a candidate without throwing some political dust in the wind. I am glad Romney voted the way he did, because he did it based on his beliefs, I am glad Mike Lee voted the way he did because he voted what he believed to be true.
Both Senators did their jobs. Mike Lee concerns was not that she was far left, but that she would not describe who process to determine if a law was constitutional or not. That she generally sentenced people below the guidelines, which later Fox News came out with a segment that said that most Federal Judges do the same thing.
I have no problem with the way you discuss things. We don’t always agree but you are respectful even if at times terse. I try not to be terse with individuals here on this forum but I will be very blunt about what I think about public figures.
President Oaks said exactly the right things concerning trans people and same sex marriage. His tone was that befitting a general authority but he was clear in his message concerning the Lord’s position on those issues and also on how the Lord would have us interact and avoid unrighteous judgment and contention.
I would like to see a transcript of governor Cox’s letter because the left leaning media put their own spin on the veto to support their own views.
One of the challenges Cox and Romney have is they tend to pander and if you are correct, they don’t make themselves clear. The media can spin things but they can state things clearly. And, if they say they are clear, then Aro is correct.
As do I. Nothing I have ever written deviates from the simple truth. Men should not compete with women in sports. Simple.
Romney…came across as a Utah conservative, we voted for him…never again. I will point out a clear difference of who a politician should be
Ted Cruz vs. Mitt Romney
Trump called him “lyin Ted”. Cruz sucked it up and worked with a Narcissistic Trump and got things done
Mitt spent every effort to undermine Trump. Impeached him twice, the 1st time on a MADE UP RUSSIAN DOSSIER
Inside the Clinton dossier and the con behind the Russiagate scandal (nypost.com)
Mitt Romney has a secret Twitter account named “Pierre Delecto” - Vox
That’s two things that Utah got wrong. We voted for both Romney and Cox and BOTH are not doing what conservatives elected them to do.
Now Floyd, before you write up a big ol rebuttal, to what I just said. Keep in mind that Cox had every opportunity to pass a bill supporting women’s sports and instead sided with Trans. men over Women.
His base does not agree, as proven by a repub. majority that went ahead and passed the bill.
Mitt Romney impeached a sitting President over LIES. He had the facts and let hate and ego get the best of him. It is as if Mitt is running for president in 2024. He wants so bad to be in the middle and cater to Libs as well as his conservative base. We smell the stink all the way to DC.
HAHAHA!!! Great post and spot on! I liked how you showed contrast between Cruz and Romney. We don’t have to like someone’s personality to work with someone doing what’s right with the country. We do our part as a team for the country.
Trump, who should of kept his mouth shut towards the elections and just let his work to the talking, fell for Dems trap and just talked his way out of being re-elected. Then he would not let Vote cheating go and acted so poorly when idiots were storming the White House. Then he champagned in Georgia and pretty much got the Dems erected to a majority in the Senate. All because he is a thin skinned Narcist who throws his friends under the bus.
The same Trump who single handedly
- Stomped out Terrorism and the Caliphate with one cruse missile. and put North Koria on Notice.
Also put Russia on notice when we wiped out a bunch of Russian mercenaries and Syrians - Gave USA complete energy independence. Think about it. Russia could not fund this stupid dumb-■■■ war with oil money that WE and Europe are funding because of stupid climate change mandates. Something Biden and HO-Harris know nothing about.
- Forced China to play fair, smacked them in the teeth as apposed to Biden, who is bought and sold by China.
- Forced Nato to quit sucking American $$$ and do their fair share.
- Sided with LAW and ORDER to counter Obama’s war on cops.
- rebuilt the military that helping Ukraine embarrass Russia’s version of Hitler.
Those are just my top 6 all while fighting off evil lifetime swamp people in Pelosi, Clintons, Chuck Schumer, Adam Shiff and a dishonest media.
I love how you use hyperbole to prove your point. of which non of it is actually true.
First, Cox can not introduce bills into the Legislature, that is up to the legislature members.
second, Cox did in fact work with the legislator that introduced the bill to add his points to the discussion. Cox and the legislator worked well together along with others in the state legislature to get the bill through the various meetings.
The problem came in the form of putting it on the house and the senate floor, where it passed the senate, but the house wanted changes. They were in the middle of the negations when time was running out.
Then a senator who was not the chief sponsor of the bill did an end run around the work the legislator did and introduced the “original” bill to be voted on.
That is the issue Cox had with the bill….
I know this because of my work, I track bills in the legislature that affects my area, which this bill does. I followed it from inception to the end around.
As for Cox not being supported by his base? currently as of the other day Cox has over a 60 percent approval rating amoung Utahan’s it up around 70-8o% for just his party.
Well, his friends were throwing him under the bus not fighting for the corrupt elections to be overthrown. The problem with the midterms is the fraud and corruption is still in place. You know that the CDC and Fauci will manufacture another Covid19 crisis and all elections will be mail in fraud ballots.
where did you get that from?
Utah Legislature overrides governor’s veto of transgender sports ban bill (nbcnews.com)
Cox completely bought into allowing Trans girls to directly compete with gender born girls.
You call it hyperbole.
Cox " The veto override vote came just days after Republican Gov. Spencer Cox penned a heartfelt letter to legislators in which he said he’d been moved by data showing that including transgender youth in sports could reduce suicide rates within the group.
“I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly,” Cox wrote.”
So include Trans kids in sports, just don’t do it at the expense of girls.
The only reason why I spend the time sparing with you, Floyd, is you are one of the few who WILL back your arguments with facts and research.
Now I will tell you what I heard on talk radio. Cox vetoed the bill because political groups threatened to pull business from Utah if he signed the bill. Its always money, isn’t it?
Outdoor retailer pulled out of Utah because the governer sided with Trump when it came to the Bears Ears NP. The main instagater??? Patagonia. Now Outdoor retailer is coming back to Utah. What???
oh, it’s money. Colorado is screwing Outdoor Retailer so they are back. but without Patagonia (yay)
Disney, where to start with this sh.t show. They are now engaging in a feud with DeSantis over the “don’t say gay bill” when all the bill states is
What is Florida’s Don’t Say Gay bill? (yahoo.com)
The rub…Disney is about to open theme parks in China, who does not allow any gay rights.
Its all about $$$$$.
I know what study he was looking at. Turns out the group told a big lie. There is no significant difference in suicide rates that he was quoting. And what does that have to do with anything about men competing in sports with women. What about the girls who may take their lives because they lost scholarship opportunities because of stolen awards. Cox needs to be called out for this. I have no idea what Floyd is talking about.
Yea that is a reliable source… talk radio, I know a guy that is one of the host for the talk shows (not KSL), had interesting comments.
My point is this, since I had to track this stupid bill, I know what a lot of the background of what was said, did and explained.
Cox wanted to have a commission to determine what is best for Trans playing in sports, NOT that they should participate in girl sports, but to see what other possibilities that exists if any.
You know, approach the subject logically, without the political BS that most politicians do.
The author of the bill agreed with Cox, most of the Republican leadership was on board with it.
The problem came from the general body of the republican legislators who went against their leadership. in purposing the original unchanged bill in the 11th hour.
Which by the way, would put a lot of financial hardships on local school districts (individually, not as a whole) to defend their stance in the courts.
The funny thing is that the bill was modified during the over ride session to include the things that was changed in the original bill. That is the real reason Cox Veto the bill.
I do like discussing the issues with you as well, because unlike some I try to remain open to new ways of looking at things. For instance your stance on “Gay” issues helped me understand both sides better.
Now if I can just get you to stop posting those monster “Trout” pictures, it is embracing the biggest ones I catch is like 10 inches. 
you would know about this than I do because of your profession. But I am glad The big three Retailers is not coming back to Utah with the show. I do not like blackmail in any form…
Everything is about $$$$$, Black lives matter, Patagonia, “wokeness”, Political Parties.
If you drill down underneath all of the fluff, it always comes down to $$$$.
The funny part about the Florida bill is it only restricts talking about that stuff from K-3 grades. My wife who is a 2nd grade teacher says that kids of that age really do not understand the subject because of their developing brain at that age.
Stupid people pushes Stupid agenda’s
Exactamundo.
And you have opened my eyes to the underbelly if this bill and Cox involvement.
Just say no to Trans men in woman’s sports.
I try to not get into politics on this board because I find the older I get, the less energy I have to be cogent and thoughtful in composing political posts. I guess I don’t think that fast because it takes me too long to write a post and by then the conversation has gone way past my point. But I was struck by the discussion about Governor Cox and Senator Romney the last few days. I appreciated Floyd’s setting forth the actual history of the Utah transgender bill, something the media has not seen fit to do, at least that I have found. As a lawyer who both defended and challenged the actions of government officials for more than 30 years, I appreciate arguments based in actual facts, in their appropriate context, without emotional labeling.
A couple of years ago, I went to the BYU Law Symposium on Religious Liberty. One of the panels was a group of journalists, including, a long-time religion editor/reporter for several major newspapers, spoke about why the media is hostile to religion. One of the points he made is that the economic model for news has changed with the emergence of the internet and social media as news sources. Ad revenue is now based on clicks.
According to him, research shows that the #1 driver for clicks on news articles is anger, where either a headline stirs up anger or justifies a pre-existing anger. # 2 is fear. Because of this, news consumers now tend to read article by article from differing sources, clicking on what feeds their anger and/or fear. So rather than left and right reading the same newspaper and watching the same network news, they are reading and viewing entirely separate groups of media, targeted at their differing anger/fear motivations. On average, readers tend to read only the headline and the first paragraph or so and emotionally respond to that. He also cited research that shows that once an opinion on an issue is founded in anger or fear it is very difficult to change it, even by presenting objective facts. Because of this, the media has become polarized, not just as to editorial opinion, but as to which “facts” they choose to report or not report. (Every media outlet has to make that decision anyway, no one can report ALL facts about ALL issues.) Both Left and Right cater their web presence to this anger/fear motivation. The end result is that left and right can no longer agree on what is actually factual. They don’t even share the same “database.”
Because of this economic model, very little journalistic effort is being given to in-depth, objective analysis of differing viewpoints in the media. In the mass market, few on either side are paying attention to (or paying for) that kind of news.
Because they don’t believe the same “facts”, and because they are motivated more by anger, fear and contention than by reasoned, in-depth thought, people across the political spectrum ascribe evil motivations to anyone that even appears to disagree with them on policy issues (e.g. on the Left: “All Republicans are racist and want old people and children to die” {I’ve actually been told that by more than one Democrat, including family members who have seen our strongly Republican family take into our home and provide for old people and children of several races!}; on the Right: “All Democrats are Marxist, anti-American and anti-religion”).
This happens even on the same side of the aisle (e.g. Kamala Harris’ vicious attack on Biden as a racist in the primary campaign; Trump attacking Jeff Flake as a “coward” and a “hypocrite” after Flake announced he was not running for re-election because he knew he would have to change his political principles to get re-elected and he refused to do so {which is what we used to call “integrity”}). I disagreed with Flake on several big issues, but the last thing I would call him is a hypocrite.
Why am I bringing this all up? Because it causes people on both sides of the aisle to simply ignore, or not even hear in the first place, objective facts that don’t support their anger or fear motivation. Those of us on the right have seen this and called it out among those on the left for many years. Unfortunately, we are sometimes blind to the same shortcoming on our own side.
For example, it is an actual, objective fact that Mitt Romney voted AGAINST Trump’s impeachment on the issue related to the Russian dossier hoax, which was stylized by the Dems as “obstruction of Congress.” He voted FOR impeachment on the other count, abuse of power, which was related to the telephone call in which Trump tried to pressure Zelenskyy into investigating Joe and Hunter Biden for their dealings in Ukraine. Romney’s stated point was that using official power for political gain is wrong. It was wrong when Joe Biden did it and it was wrong when Donald Trump did it. All of this is a matter of public record, but still folks on both the left and the right believe the falsehood about Romney and the Russia hoax, because it justifies their anger-based opinions. For leftists, it supports and to some extent “justifies” their anger over Trump “stealing” the 2016 election. For Trump supporters it justifies their anger at Romney for his whole fraught relationship with Trump so they can label him as a “pandering”, unprincipled, knee-jerk RINO and NeverTrumper. This is more emotionally satisfying than examining the objective facts and the actual statements and intentions .
My point is not to convince anyone that Romney was either right or wrong for voting how he did or on any other issue. We can all have different opinions about that, but that we should all care about basing our opinions on actual Truth and not slogans, allegations, or out of context sound bites that feed our angers and fears. It is scary to me that even such generally thoughtful and reasonable people on the “Right” as Aro and Fish have been taken in by and become angry at Romney for “falling for a lie,” which is itself a lie. Believing lies is bad for society and for freedom, whether the lie bolsters our position or the other side’s.
As the scriptures say “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) I think President Nelson, President Oaks (one of my law school mentors), Elder Kristofferson and other Church leaders have been trying to teach us over the last few years that those of us who believe in God-given Rights and Liberties (and Agency), and a God-inspired Constitution, need to seek truth, rely on truth, actually insist on truth, and shun the very real temptations to label/judge without understanding and to base strong opinions on anger, fear and the manipulated information designed to stoke them.
And now you know why I don’t post on politics!
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