Interesting take on the Honor Code

Football
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Did you read the entire article and some of the comments? I don’t think these protesters are going to stop with just a procedural change. One comment was the whole thing needs to be dumped because this isn’t the 60’s anymore. Next thing you’ll see is this same group saying this is the 2020’s and it’s time to discard Romans Chapter 1 and anything else dealing with homosexual behavior. And then let’s forget about the 10 Commandments because abortion isn’t murder and science has proved God doesn’t exist.

I’m all in favor of the changes in procedure. Sounds reasonable and fair. But, open your eyes as Utah is now a purple state becoming a cesspool of liberal Democrats in Romney sheepclothing. And look how liberalism (socialism) is destroying California. Typhoid in Los Angeles? 25% of the country’s homeless live in California. Where are most of the illegals ending up with their diseases and causing more homeless and crime? California. So, before you embrace liberalism, be careful what you wish for. It’s not just about a few procedural changes with this group. It’s also not mistakes the brethren make. It’s the members not following the brethren and the adherence to doctrine and the Lord’s commandments to watch out for.

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Have you research the history of the Honor Code?
History of the Honor Code
Every year BYU has an “Honor Week” dedicated to celebrating the legacy of the Honor Code and to remind students of the importance of following it.
Early forms of the CES Honor Code are found as far back as the days of the Brigham Young Academy (1875–1903). Early school president, Karl G. Maeser created the “Domestic Organization”, which was a group of teachers who would visit students at their homes to see that they were following the school’s moral rules. In the 1901 school catalog this guide of conduct included a prohibition on “strong drink and tobacco”, “profanity and obscenity”, attending parties not under the control of “responsible persons”, “keeping late hours, having improper associates, and visiting places of questionable repute”. Maeser also, however, relied largely on individual student’s honor and honesty in keeping the rules, intending faculty visits as times of counsel rather than espionage. After George H. Brimhall served as president, enforcement became somewhat more lax (there were no more faculty visits), but adherence to the same basic principles were encouraged. From 1910 to 1960 the annual student catalog would only contain a few brief sentences on student conduct and discipline, often mentioning the prohibition of tobacco, “improper associates”, and “visiting places of questionable repute”, though the 1930s and 40s saw increased standards regarding rules related to student housing and the dress code. Women were allowed to wear slacks only on Saturdays, and men wore uniforms for a short time. In 1949 students drafted the first Honor Code enforced by an Honor Council of students and administrators, and was used mainly for cases of cheating and [academic dishonesty] The Student Honor Council, created around 1949, oversaw case violations. This council met with enough success among students in alleviating cheating that in 1957 BYU president Ernest L. Wilkinson suggested the Honor Code expand to include other school standards. This led to an expansion during the 1960s which created the bulk of what the Honor Code represents today: rules regarding chastity, dress, grooming, drugs, and alcohol. Instead of a short paragraph on university standards, the undergraduate catalog began printing a more detailed set of Honor Code policies in 1968, including a clause requiring students to act when observing any violation and a list of banned drugs (“amphetamines, barbiturates, hallucinogenic drugs, psychedelic drugs, and narcotics”) This change came because the administration completely took over the previously student run honor code and disbanded the student senate and student honor code committee. The honor code was expanded in the 1970 catalog with a requirement to adhere to the “standards of dress” and the addition of marijuana and LSD to the list of banned drugs.
In the 1960s, several rules regarding longer hairstyles in men were introduced after long hair on men became associated with the radical movements then springing up on college campuses around the country. However, long hair and beards were not completely against the rules until the mid-1970s with the 1978 annual catalog being the first edition to contain any detailed dress and grooming standards code. The 1960s also saw changes in rules regarding women’s dress, as LDS Church leaders made statements against low-cut dresses and short skirts. By this time, women were allowed to wear slacks and pant-suits, but jeans were not allowed until 1981."

I guess coming from a cesspool California member, I should take heed… LOL

First of all, Salt Lake City proper is Purple, the rest of the State is definitely RED. Most of Salt Lake county is pretty RED (outside of SL proper), that is why the legislature is 90% GOP. Yes, you don’t like Romney, but guess what? He is Utah favorite son because of what he did for us in the 2001 Olympics, he is LDS and generally viewed as a good person.

So your comment makes no sense to me.

Second of all, I am not on the bandwagon with the whole GOP immigration party line. I serve in a inner city Spanish ward who has both legal and illegal immigrant members.

I have been told in a meetings with Elder Ballard, we as missionary should not care what the people legal status is, we are there to serve them, not to report them to ICE.

I grant you there are some bad people crossing the border, but there are also many people who are simply trying to improve their lives and the lives of their families.

I am not sure where the line is, but my only responsibility right now is to help them to become more self sufficient as per our Prophet direction through the Mission Presidency.

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Romney is a liberal in sheepskin. Romneycare is socialism. He made his money through capitalism then instituted a socialist state government. Just another Bush. Part of the deep state. If Utah is so red, how did he get elected? Purple. The larger cities are blue.

The reason Elder Ballard said that is because he doesn’t want members to get hurt tattling on MS-13 who literally cut the hearts out of their victims. And, that is why I’m for letting no one into the country without being fully vetted. I don’t care about the good ones that helped the bad ones enter too by just massing at the boarders and hiding beind the so-called good ones who broke our immigration laws to get here. We have plenty of legal members to help first. Let Elder Ballard know that while you are hobnobbing with the Brethren. The rest of us around the country are getting screwed shutting down wards like the one I was in.

The honor code when I entered BYU in 1977 included no beards but I could keep my mustache except working at the MTC in which I did. If you study your history you outlined it’s obvious changes were made when society evils entered our country to stop the evil. Now, this group wants more? I think they want BYU to relax the rules towards sin and evil.

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The honor code revisions are good. The honor code morphed into areas that it shouldn’t have. Letter of the law university employees became power hungry without common sense in some areas. The changes are good and I hope they standardize the dress and grooming rules to make it the same at all church universities. IE if girls can wear jeans at BYU-P then they can wear them at BYU-I.

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grassghopper,

I was born and raised in California. I am a democrat. I like very much Republican Mitt Romney. I find your comments extremely offensive.
Ron

1 Like
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Scott, do you ever take the time to research your BS comments? Instead relying on people like Levin and Hannity for your information?

Wrong! there is no such thing as RomneyCare, it was a term used by Obama to persuade voters to vote for him. It’s called Massachusetts health care system. Romney was in a deep Blue State Controlled totally by democrats, he had little to no power to stop anything the democrats wanted done. So he did what most smart people (sorry Scott your not included) would do and try to make a bad thing better by involving the private sector insurance companies to cover the uninsured instead of the government unlike the ACA does currently.

I told you how he got elected: 1) he is Republican, 2) he is LDS 3) he saved the 2001 Olympics from being a total embarrassment for the State of Utah (that is the time they found out about how corrupt the IOC was in taking bribes).

Second, Largest Utah Cities political alliances:
SLC (proper) - about 85 Democratic 15 % GOP (Blue)
West Valley - about 85 GOP 15 % Democratic (Red)
Provo/Orem - about 90 GOP 10 % Democratic (DEEP RED)
Ogden (proper) - about 80 Democratic 20 % GOP (PURPLE)
Cedar City - about 90 GOP 10 % Democratic (DEEP RED)
St. George - about 90 GOP 10 % Democratic (DEEP RED)

The last Democratic Governor was elected 45 yrs ago and he was considered a moderate.
The GOP has controlled and had super majority in both the State house and Senate for nearly 6 decades.

Heck, No one can remember when Utah County (Provo/Orem) elected anyone but a GOP candidate.

We have elected democrat House of Representatives like Matheson and now McAdams, but even they are not anything near the idiots in California keeps sending there.

The past 10 Senate (national level)Elections, every GOP candidate has won in a landslide.

The thing is Scott, you are the only gumba that believes Utah, it’s major cities and voters are “Purple”. The rest of us informed people know Utah is a deep Red is as Massachusetts is dark blue.

Another BS comment, this has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with MS-13. I was there Scott, YOU WERE NOT!. I know exactly what Elder Ballard said and what he meant by his comments, there was no misunderstanding in what he said, Elder Ballard made sure of that!
Officials Statement: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is concerned that any state legislation that only contains enforcement provisions is likely to fall short of the high moral standard of treating each other as children of God.” Where is your concern Scott?

Why don’t you write him a letter Scott, and see how fast your membership is revoke. Because that sounds suspiciously like apostasy talk.

Wow Scott, what a Christian thing to say…

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Sounds like a liberal response to me. I rest my case! By the way, I’m sure Mitt, like you, are a very nice family man. However, you are liberal, right :upside_down_face:

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Floyd: Scott, do you ever take the time to research your BS comments? Instead relying on people like Levin and Hannity for your information?

Scott: You should listen to Levin. He writes and speaks with complete logic and reason. He eliminates the emotions of what liberals do. You should read his book “Liberty and Tyranny.” It would help you greatly understand socialism in all its forms and the way people sneak it in to our governments. Yes, plural.

Floyd: Wrong! there is no such thing as RomneyCare, it was a term used by Obama to persuade voters to vote for him. It’s called Massachusetts health care system. Romney was in a deep Blue State Controlled totally by democrats, he had little to no power to stop anything the democrats wanted done. So he did what most smart people (sorry Scott your not included) would do and try to make a bad thing better by involving the private sector insurance companies to cover the uninsured instead of the government unlike the ACA does currently.

Scott: HAHAHA! No power. He was just the Governor voted in by a bunch of liberal Democrats. How did that happen if he wasn’t running as a liberal and governing as a liberal? He was also for Abortion while Governor. Oh, Smack!!! The ACA also used and still uses private insurers. But, they have to provide the care and stand on their heads to what the Government bureaucrats say they have to do including for you to have papsmear test and breast exam every year :rofl: The state Government controlled it and the Federal Government controls healthcare. Thanks to Trump, it doesn’t penalize those who don’t want it.

Floyd: I told you how he got elected: 1) he is Republican, 2) he is LDS 3) he saved the 2001 Olympics from being a total embarrassment for the State of Utah (that is the time they found out about how corrupt the IOC was in taking bribes).

Scott: The recent actual numbers are: Republicans = 682,585; Democrats = 185,957 but those unaffiliated = 511,609. WOW!!! Potential Democrats! Yep, going purple! Will Romney vote conservative with Trump like on the immigration? NOPE! He’s a liberal by deeds, not by word. You may not like Trump’s words but his deeds so far are conservative through and through. Where’s Romney? With the Democrats. Who cares about the Olympics! Nonsense!

He can say what he wants to you because you won’t ask tough questions. Enforcement is required to keep the laws moral and ethical. What isn’t moral and ethical is what is going on at the boarder with 100,000 a month lawbreakers coming into the country. We have laws as a sovereign nation which means nothing to liberals. There are an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 MS-13 gang members in the U.S. They go freely into the U.S. and back to Mexico with the help of the Cartels because the enforcement isn’t being done because of the easy access to the U.S. They are now the soldiers of the Cartels coming to the U.S. committing murders, selling drugs and prostitution. They are Gadianton Robbers. Most are under the age of 24. I’d like to see you go treat them as children of God and see where that gets you. We have the Book of Mormon for our days to help prevent the mistakes of the past. Yes, we can help the “good” lawbreakers. My concern is for the dead people by MS-13 and anyone else who dies because of the lack of enforcement because of the Democrats. The loopholes of those seeking asylum need to be closed, now! Does the Church Brethren support the breaking of the U.S. laws?

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Floyd, the good ones don’t kill people. The good ones don’t break our immigration laws either. The good ones go through the lawful process getting here. I care about the good people that the bad ones kill, mame, rape, steal from and traffic. It seems like you don’t care about them. They actually came across the boarder with those so-called good people. Those so-called good people shield the bad ones helping them get into the country to commit crimes. Wake up Utard!!!

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Scott,
There is such crap you posted, I hardly know where to start, so I won’t!

But you are one of those people the Savior warned us about in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 11:29
“For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.”

When it comes to politics or Honor Code, everyone of your posts is full of hate and contention, I tried to be nice about it, ignore it because it is Scott posting it. But this latest diatribe of yours makes me want to puke.

Elder Marvin J. Ashton said “We must not be manipulated or enraged by those who subtly foster contention over issues of the day.” So I am going to follow his advise.

And lastly President Nelson said:
"My concern is that contention is becoming accepted as a way of life. From what we see and hear in the media, the classroom, and the workplace, all are now infected to some degree with contention. How easy it is, yet how wrong it is, to allow habits of contention to pervade matters of spiritual significance, because contention is forbidden by divine decree (2 Nephi 26:32) "

So I choose to follow the words of our prophets, how about you?

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How did I know this whole diatribe would end like this?!?

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U must be psychic :thinking:. Have you ever heard such drivel?. I don’t want to puke -I want to laugh​:smiley:

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You’re the one who is taking my words as contentious because my words make logical and reasonable sense. Instead of responding civilly, you personally attack me. I answered your statements is all I did. I said assisting lawbreakers is wrong. We have a scripture that says we follow the laws of our land. I gave a clear and correct reason why we should not enable unlawful immigration. Allowing unlawful immigration sets up contentions.

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I always have hope that Scott will one day be reasonable and allow different points of views without all the hate and contention… sadly, I am coming to the conclusion that is not possible.

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HAHAHA! You want everyone to agree with you because you have become very important and soon to be a GA. I think questioning how and if we are upholding and sustaining the law by supporting reasons why people should cross the boarder illegally. The decision to ignor immigration laws is a policy decision. And, as I said before, the Brethren don’t want us to turn in illegal aliens for safety reasons. Simply help people in need but don’t enable them and don’t make it seem the Church enables illegal immigration. Don’t be a sanctuary Church either. Lawlessness.

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grasshopper,

" Sounds like a liberal response to me. I rest my case! "

Thinking about the liberal causes that the Democrats are fighting for, vs. the Republican response by trying to stop it by calling it socialism or liberalism, I must ask, " according to the Bible, would you say that Jesus was more conservative or would you say that He was more liberal? Use scripture to prove your point. I will fact check your answer and respond.

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Grasshopper, your brilliance never ceases to amaze me. You seem to know so much about everything and because of your superiority, over us, we have much to learn from you. Thank you for being so wonderful. You truly show in each of your postings that you do indeed love thy neighbor as yourself; you do truly do onto others as ye would have them do onto you. You do indeed express the belief that we are all brothers and sisters being the children of God. I praise you for your goodness and holiness. Yea right!

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Thank you Floyd. I like that you are well informed. Even when we disagree, I respect the way it is done. I respect you and believe you to be a good man. I wish you well in all that comes to you now and in the near future.

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Jesus was more conservative. You should read or listen to talks by Ezra Taft Benson and Marion G Romney. You would then know the difference between Socialism/Communism and the United Order of Jesus Christ.

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Nope… He was anything but a conservative…
definition of a conservative:

  1. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

Jesus defied the Jewish leaders in their understanding of the law:

  1. Breaking the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-2: “At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath".
  2. Washing hands before eating - During a meal, the Pharisees accuse Jesus for allowing his disciples to eat before they wash their hands, which, according to the Pharisees, was doing away with a tradition long practiced by their elders; this was a sign of disrespect: “Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, ‘Why do your discipline break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!’” (Matthew 15:1-2). Jesus goes on to rebuke the Pharisees, calling them “hypocrites."
  3. Views on Adultery - “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women,’” (John. 8:3-5). Jesus replies by stating that only the sinless has the right to “cast the first stone.” As a result, everyone walks away, and the woman is not harmed.
  4. Who he became friends with - Jesus broke with this tradition: “The Samaritan woman said to him, ‘You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?’ (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans). Jesus answered her, ‘If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water,’” (John 4: 7-10).
  5. Eating among the “Unclean” -Mark 2:15-16
    15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
    16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with [publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

Yep Scott, Jesus was conservative alright… LOL, in your dreams.

How many times did the Savior rebuke the stiff necked Jewish religious leaders for not understanding the tradition and the law he gave them?