Jim, did you see who Rose just hired?

Looks like he just put all his eggs in one basket

Lewis is a premier High School, who has some offers before to go to other places…

Not sure if that translate to College, but the dude knows Bball…

I’m not sure what you mean, Lewis is a quality candidate. This is a good hire. He has contacts with coaches around the country. BYU will either get Frank Jackson or they won’t. I don’t think this hire makes it more or less likely.

Interesting source from Vanquish - “Quincy Lewis was a finalist for the job when Pope was hired four years ago.” Why Dave Rose took Pope over Lewis? It work out pretty good when Lewis stayed at LP with those talented players, Nick, Eric and TJ and now possible Frank Jackson. I guess this is the end of LP Pipeline after Frank Jackson finish his senior year. And from this article it was saying he could take over Dave Rose job if he chooses to retire once his contract is done?

This is a great hire. Now BYU will be able to get all of the best players in the Utah Valley area. Pope will have to recruit outside of Utah Valley or go after the second level players there for his team.

I think the most critical thing it does for BYU basketball is that it helps them to be even more insulated from the outside world than it did before, particularly after they told FB4 and Nielsen to leave… which they sort of had to do because they became outsiders.

I’m also thinking there is the possibility of some hidden talent at Timpview, American Fork or even to the south in Payson. Lewis must have seen a player from there in one of LP’s games, from this past season, that he figured would be a good fit for BYU. Perhaps it was even a younger kid who played in one of those youth scrimmages at halftime of a BYU game a few years ago.

Now, instead of transferring in from Lehi, kids will have to transfer to Lone Peak from anywhere if they want to play for BYU in the future. Of course that will make for the added bonus of having “made it” because they will be living in Alpine! Things are really looking up for the Cougars, the next few years are going to be incredible!

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First of all, FB4 wasn’t asked to leave. He left of his own accord. Second, Nielsen was asked to leave because he wanted to play the 4, but he couldn’t guard the 4. Neilsen’s statement that he was committed to improving is somewhat like a student saying, after he just failed the test, if you just give me one more chance, I’ll pass it. He was asked to leave because Rose had to pull a skinny 6’7" guy of the bench and put him in the starting lineup so that he could compete enough to beat bad teams. The home town of the players BYU has coming in is not relevant. These players were recruited by solid programs nationwide. The Lewis hire improves BYU’s recruiting nationally because of he happens to personally know high school coaches from around the country due to the success of his program at Lone Peak. BYU would get the best players in the Utah Valley area with or without Lewis. They have for years. I don’t think this impacts the Frank Jackson recruiting. If Jackson goes on a mission before playing basketball, he will end up at BYU. If he does not, he will end up somewhere else. It’s that simple.

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What I find funny Jim is your constant disdain for Lone Peak…

Lone peak team (Haws, Mika, Emery and Toolson) played Jabari Parker team in a national HS tournament and DESTRIOYED them… at the time Jabari team was ranked number 1 in the country.
Lone Peak team plays national teams on a regular basis and beats. Lone Peak is considered one of the best HS basketball team in the COUNTRY and yet you bash Coach Rose for recruiting 5 star players from Lone Peak.

So who is BYU missing out on Jim? Come on you moan and groan about how Rose only recruits Happy Valley players… Who have they missed out on that wanted to come to BYU?

By the way… only 6 of the 18 players on the team is from Happy Valley, 3 more are from other parts of the State… That means 50 percent of the team is not from Utah…

Why don’t you take the time and check out what the pro’s think of Mika, TJ Haws, Nick Emery and their national ranking… there were a lot of colleges after these boys… Haws (his dad Marty played there) and Emery (his brother played) wanted to play for BYU because of family tradition.

Floyd and rblack -

Since you guys seem to know so much about the reasons for players leaving, being asked to leave, the incredible talent level of players and coaches from Alpine who live in big, expensive homes and how good the BYU basketball team is and will be, I have one question for you.

Over the past 5 years do you think BYU has exceeded their expectations, fallen short of their expectations or ended up right about where they, and their fans, expected to be?

I don’t want to read about excuses or rationalizations one way or the other, good or bad. I just want to know what you believe with regards to expectations for the team, the coaches and the program overall…

Let’s hear it.

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Over the last 5 years, BYU and Dave Rose have exceeded expectations. They have a 73% winning percentage over that time period. Historically, BYU has a 62% winning percentage. Since 1920 BYU has not had a coach with a higher career winning percentage. I think it is notable that, over that time period, they have only missed the NCAA tournament once. Dave Rose is currently in the top 10 for active coaches in win percentage. The program is and has been moving forward. He is establishing expectations of winning. I remember when Steve Cleveland quit. He complained that the BYU administration expected BYU to regularly win games in the NCAA tournament. He noted that BYU had not done that for many years prior to his hiring and indicated that it was an unrealistic expectation given the realities of coaching at BYU. Dave Rose has embraced that expectation and in fact, his NCAA record is better than any other coach at BYU except Frank Arnold who took BYU to the elite 8 (and lost every other NCAA and NIT game his team played). He is tied with Stan Watts for the most NCAA tournament wins (Stan Watts has 10 losses to Rose’s 6). This is a well respected program and it is moving forward. He is starting to land elite players, even some from outside of Utah. He has gone head to head with major programs to land quality recruits. Without a doubt, he has exceeded my expectations. As to whether or not he has exceeded his expectations, you would have to ask him. Has he exceeded the majority of fans’ expectations? Probably not. But, fans in general, generally expect their team to do the impossible. Syracuse fans expect to win a national championship every year. Most years they have been disappointed. Utah fans expect to beat BYU every year, most years under Rose, they have been disappointed. Weber State fans expect their team to be relevant, most years, they are disappointed. UVU fans…oh wait, are there UVU fans?
I think realistic expectations for the BYU program are for them to compete every year for an NCAA bid. Rose has done so. On occasion, they should get to the Sweet 16. Rose has done that. BYU needs to be in the running for solid LDS talent. Rose has made that happen. He has landed more than he has lost. Unfortunately, most of the solid LDS talent will be located within an hour of Provo. Asking them to focus their efforts on out of state LDS prospects is not realistic. I hope one day they will make it to a final 4. I think Rose is the best hope for them to do so.

My guess is the 50 percent of the players currently on the roster who are from outside of the State of Utah, suck and don’t know how to play the way they should…

I also think that it may have more to do with the way Coach Rose coaches than any specific players that are on the team.

You never answered my question Jim… Who did BYU miss out on? What great player did BYU pass on in order to get the four best Highly recruited, Highly skilled players in Utah (for that recruiting class), that not only won the 5A State Championship, but placed second in the Country in the National High School Tournament. Beat the highly ranked Chicago Team of Jabari Parker and jahlil Okefur(current Duke player) team. So I am really wondering why the griping? Is it because BYU misses out on good players or is it your personal bias against anything that comes out of Alpine.

You do realize people like Dale Murphy, Ken Roberts, Todd Christensen, Wally Joyner, several LDS GA’s all live in the Alpine area, Right? Do you think they are evil as those that screwed your dad?

What’s with the “big expensive homes” issue? Wow talk about being judgmental… Oh yea, forgot your wide sweeping accusation of anyone who lives in “Rich” areas are evil and corrupt because some people from that area screwed your dad. Got it… Heaven forbid that someone would want to live in a better neighborhood, with better schools, with better neighbors. That is a sin I guess.

Okay, I disagree with these opinions but I am probably wrong. I don’t think BYU has exceeded anything in the last 5 years. I think they are somewhere inbetween meeting and falling short of expectations. They lose so many easily winnable games because they are outcoached and fail to make adjustments during games. They haven’t won a conference title since they entered the lowly wcc. I also think the team and coaches expect to do better than they actually do, therefore they are falling short of expectations. Maybe I should rephrase that… they are falling short of the “hype” that is perpetrated every season.

But knowing that all of those great players of the past, along with all of the other fantastic lds people, are living in Alpine, it’s only a matter of time before the place is translated, right Floyd? And you are the one that mentioned the differences in home prices, not me.

Now, let’s look at last seasons roster and see which out of state players played or will be back next season…

Aytes - didn’t play
Bartley - gone next season and didn’t play very much
Chatman - didn’t play
Ellis - didn’t play
Fischer - played a lot **********
Nielson - gone next season and didn’t play very much
Toolson - didn’t play very much
Winder - played a lot, gone next year
Worthington - played too much, made no sense. gone next year

Of those 9 players, the majority either didn’t play or are gone next season.

So how about the 9 Utah players?

Andrus - played some, no idea what will be next year.
Austin - starter, injured, would have played a lot
Collinsworth - played a lot, will play a lot next year.
Davis - couldn’t play, rules
Halford - played a lot
Haws - played a lot
Kaufusi - played a lot
Nixon - played more than should have… gone on mission?
Sharp - played some, gone next year.

The majority of the kids from Utah played… a lot, which leads me to my next question… I know Floyd lives in Utah but I am guessing rblack does as well, or has spent a considerable amount of time there. Is that accurate? because your perspectives are oriented toward the Utah bubble mentality. You simply can’t see what others do and even if you did, would either not acknowledge it or make up lots of reasons and excuses why it isn’t relevant.

The primary reason Floyd thinks I should just accept the lying, stealing and cheating is because it is so commonplace there that it is just part of life, like the notion that you have made it if you live in Alpine or the BYU basketball team exceeds expectations because they finish 2nd or 3rd in the league and make the ncaa tourney for a one and done showing. It’s just the way it is, so you accept it.

I guess it’s all about perspective and frame of reference, mixed with a bit of delusion… :unamused:

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We seem to at least agree on many aspects of the sports programs. And, you have been mostly accurate in your first hand knowledge of things in the sports departments. I would like to see Rose be able to land a Jabari Parker LDS kid more often. Frank Jackson should attend BYU. Especially if he wants to go on a mission.

The only thing I would say about recruits is that some of them have peaked already and some have a lot of room to grow and get better. What is their real potential and how long will it take to develop is something that also should be in the discussion.

What a load of dog crap Jim…

Please show me one example where I said “you should just accept the lying, stealing and cheating” of people (whether they live in or outside of Utah) ANYWHERE in any of my posts… That is so far off Jim.

You are LYING and Misquoting what I have posted… Plain enough for you? But you don’t care about the truth do you? all you want is your pound of flesh… and you call yourself LDS… WOW!

I said you should STOP accusing people of being “Cheaters, Liars and Thieves” just because they live in the Alpine area (or any other wealthy area like Draper). Are there people who are these things living there? Yes, but that does not mean all people living there are that way. That is my main issue with your posts, Is using the broad brush to paint all people the same, because of the actions of a few idiots.

It seems to me that you have “Wealth Envy”…

You still have not answered my question… Who did BYU miss? by offering the Lone peak guys… Was there someone better than them, that would come to BYU, that we missed?

Serious Jim, why won’t you answer the question?

Now for a refresher…
You complain about the lack of League Championship, yet all through the year, YOU cried about the biased officiating… So how can BYU win a championship, if all the officials are bias? You can not have both ways Jim…
You have stated multiple times that the WCC has a conspiracy to keep BYU down from winning the conference. So if there is one, how can you now lament now that BYU has not won one?

The issue is NOT the players Jim… It is the Coaching and the system that he chooses to run (the old Houston run and gun).

Coach Lewis could help, because he is very defense oriented. that is what he preached at Lone Peak… Time will tell.

There are injury reasons and eligibility reasons why some didn’t play on your list that you didn’t know. There are questions for sure about coaching decisions. But, that’s true with most team that have 3 and 4 star athletes. They are inconsistent and take a while to catch on to team play. I’m sure if Rose could land Jabari Parker’s of the world, he would try to. But, since he can’t do that often because kids and parents seem to think they can get to the NBA with other coaches and teams, he has to go after those middle class players and try to get the upper-middle class players (3’s and 4’s) Utah is full of those kids playing in high school. So, why not recruit them if they are there and love BYU???

Of course, why does this all matter? You think BYU has no chance of ever winning a title because of this big conspiracy theory of yours :wink:

I guess I decided to play the SG role for awhile… as it pertains to sports at BYU.

I’m sure that I misunderstand a lot of what you are saying but at least I am willing to admit it, unlike SG who never admits to anything.

You know you have me pegged totally inaccurately so step back and take a deep breath. I hope you aren’t as upset as you sound with your ranting and raving posts.

The reason I say what I do is because people don’t believe BYU is second fiddle to Gonzaga no matter what. If that is true, why don’t they win a conference title? Even in bad years, GU wins. If BYU is so awesome with their local talent and high school players that never lose then they should have no trouble with Gonzaga the next 5 years, right?

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That depends on the make up of Gonzaga. They do seem to bring these great talented players in during the off seasons. We do that a little and we will see with Davis how that works out. I think he and KC are going to really bring it to teams. Put Kaufusi and others in the mix and I think we can be as good as GU. Better? Not so sure.

I always admit to things. I admit I’m right and you are wrong :wink:

I would never live in Utah again. I have lived there. I currently live in Idaho. It is almost too much like Utah for me to deal with.

You moved from Utah to Idaho?

Culturally speaking not a big difference, but there is nothing like the bubble of Utah valley. It is such a “unique” place…

No, I moved from Utah to New York, I lived there for 12 years and then I moved to Idaho because my father who moved from Utah to Idaho was ill.

I think Quincy will be a huge hire for BYU. He has a reputation of demanding a ton of his players on “D” and in conditioning. We always see the footage of his high scoring stars but his “D” is reported to be his specialty. I am very curious from any of you on here exactly what do the other assistants bring to the equation. Never hear much about LaComb or Nashif. The best ones usually get hired away by another program so I wonder sometimes.