KC's Legacy? Where would you put him?

Are you talking the college level?, I agree. If you are talking the pro level, he is an all time great. He was also surrounded at Boston.
Jeff

Great teams have killer instinct, they can put you away, so you know you can’t win. I only remember one BYU team like that. It was when Alan Taylor was the center. Those guys dominated. It seems like they were undefeated in league. It also seems like they lost in the first round with a huge upset. I am hoping to see another team like them in the next couple of years. Killer instinct.
Jeff

He was great in college too.

My list would be as follows:

1st Team
F - Michael Smith
F - Devin Durrant
C - Kresimir Cosic
G - Jimmer Fredette
G - Danny Ainge

2nd Team -

F - Fred Roberts
F - Tyler Haws
C - Mel Hutchins
G - ■■■■ Nemelka
G - Roland Minson

3rd Team

F - Joe Nelson
F - Jeff Chatman
C - John Fairchild
G - Kyle Collinsworth
G - Bernie Fryer

I picked my teams based on a traditional 2 guard, 2 forward, 1 center lineup. One on my requirements was at least 2 years playing for BYU hence no Shawn Bradley. Tyler Haws was only a 2nd team pick because I always considered him a one dimensional player but he was a terrific scorer so he was exceptional in his one dimension. Some of the names on the list may not be recognizable to some of you but I picked them based on their impact at the time they played. I saw all of them play at least a few times except Joe Nelson, Roland Minson, and Mel Hutchins. Minson, Nelson & Hutchins couldn’t play in today’s game but they had great impact when they played and were All Americans in their day.

My picks were based on what the guys did in college. I thought about putting Brandon Davies on the 3rd team but John Fairchild was a bigger impact player than Davies when he played. He was the best player on a team that was in the top ten his senior season. Hutchins and Minson were All Americans on the 1951 NIT champions and Minson was the NIT MVP. Joe Nelson pre-dates Minson and Hutchins but was Stan Watt’s first great player.

Bernie Fryer played with Cosic two years and played a few years in the NBA. ■■■■ Nemelka was a guard who was nearly as good as Fredette and Ainge. He played 3 years of varsity ball at BYU back in the days when freshman couldn’t play varsity. He might have had a nice pro career but went on a mission after his senior year, he is,the only guy who ever did that I know of. He played a year or two with the ABA Utah Stars after his mission but never had an impact. He practiced law later and was quite successful. He was the best player on the 1966 NIT champions. All of the above named guys were impact players on some of the best ever BYU teams.

Stan Watts had some really outstanding teams and retired in 1972 so some of the greatest years in BYU basketball played pre 80s and you have to recognize a lot of those great players form the Watt’s years.

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I like the list: soundly reasoned.
It struck me this morning on my walk that perhaps the reason KC and Tyler couldn’t lift their teams was not the talent factor, rather the experience together.

Except for Calipari, and now coach K at Duke seems to have caught on, the teams that are most successful are teams that have not just experience and talent but talent that has experience together. Duke and Kentucky seem to be able to break the requirement by simply having such an overload on the talent that the teamwork and experience together requirements pale.

KC and Haws didn’t have the talent to be one and done and nobody on their teams did they needed the experience together. Their teams have even for BYU had a remarkably high ratio of new to the team at least for this year number of players.

Part of the reason Coach Rose has stated he is so excited about the future is that not just the talent will be available, but that it will be together for longer.
He has even stated that the early missions will likely eliminate or greatly reduce the likes of Seljaas and allow for easier recruiting scheduling and more growth of the team as a team… a major reason the Jimmer years were so successful were that the team was a team longer than most Rose has been able to field.

Though where is Marty Haws on this list? He didn’t NBA, but he did go pro when it wasn’t very common.

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I edited my list a little and moved Tyler up to 2nd team. You have to give him a ton of credit for being the all time leading scorer.

I also added a few thoughts about some of the guys who played in the Stan Watt’s era

I thought about putting Marty Haws on the list. Fryer actually only played two years but he was a great player those two years. Haws started 4 years. Fryer was a JC transfer and freshmen didn’t play varsity when Fryer played. Maybe Haws is more deserving than Fryer but I wouldn’t put Marty Haws ahead of any of the other guards I picked. The other 5 were exceptional BYU players in my opinion.

top 5

Ainge
Jimmer
Cosic
Collinsworth
Hutchins

I put KC in there because he has carried this team while doing what no other PG has ever done before.

Pretty good picks I think. Hutchins was a center in college but a forward in the NBA. Collinsworth could be classified a guard or small point forward. If you could all of those guys on one team with 2016 caliber training and coaching I think you would have one terrific line-up and they could all be on the floor at the same time.

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I also think that KC is a NBA talent that could start for most of the teams there. I have yet to see anyone stop him from getting to the basket and his rebounding and passing are exceptional.

I love KC
but
he’s got some things against him for the NBA
wrong skin color
slow first step
can’t hit from outside
can not hit a foul shot on demand
Lke Jimmer he can dominate the upper echelons of the EuroLeague if he’s willing though. CSKA Moscow would probably love him…that are Dynamo…an American star who speaks Russian would make him as big as AK.

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I love KC too and if he does ends up at Dynamo he should wear #47 and be nickname CK47. I know, AK sound cool for Russian semi rifle name.

NBA is not the same anymore and too much selfish players. Jimmer and KC should just move on to over sea if NBA overlook them again.

Great list, Aro!!! Wow. I’ve only been watching BYU BB since the mid-80’s so I can’t comment much. What will be interesting will be this list in 2020. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nick Emery, TJ Haws, or Eric Mika deserve to be there.

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KC will go down as a very good player who lead the teams he was with to three of the five worst records in the Dave Rose era. This despite the fact that he put up great numbers. Despite the fact that Tyler Haws BYU’s all time leading scorer. Despite the fact that Chase Fischer one of the greatest three point shooters in BYU history was next to him a best friend on and off the court.

Think about it. Haws the all time leading scorer, KC the all time leader in assists and rebounds and the teams he was on managed .657, .714, and .702. The other NIT team and Rose’s first team at .657 and .690 fill out the bottom 5 years.
Too sad.

Sorry but KC goes down as a great player. 12 triple doubles will be spoken about on ESPN for a long time. His scoring average a very good but everything else is great. I hope he can develop a midrange shot in the NBA.

He isn’t even projected as a draft pick so he will have to make it in some other way. I don’t see him being there at all. If Jimmer can’t make it, why would Kyle?

I see him making a very good career for himself somewhere overseas… doesn’t he speak Russian? Travis Hansen played some in the nba and he was decent, but his career in Russia and his social work there had way more of an impact. He was a great ambassador for the church as well.

Also, while Kyle did have all those triple doubles and great career stats, he didn’t have much of an impact on the teams at BYU. Those teams, particularly this year, are more known for their selfish play style and under performing in general with some bad losses the past two seasons. In reality, the season ended with a punctuation for the entire season when Fischer got a pass and never looked to a teammate, forcing up a bad 3 point attempt that was blocked. That was the season in a microcosm. They could have been way more successful, as we saw throughout the season, had they played more as a team.

Curry chose to push his comfort zone with his mind on the future, whereas Jimmer narrowed his comfort zone with his heart in the present. NBA: Why Didn't Jimmer Fredette Develop Into The Next Stephen Curry?

Don’t agree with all of Sir Charles but it interesting. If he is accurate about Jimmer, which I think reflects a lot on Rose and the quality of his coaching and talent development, then perhaps the future for KC is brighter than I would think otherwise.

We aren’t going to agree on the selfishness. But, KC has more strengths to his game than Jimmer. Jimmer is one dimensional. KC starts at 6’6" and that is a big difference. He will have to develop a midrange game at best. I think he can do it.

Yeah, I think Barkley is on to some of the realities of why Curry is there and Fredette is not. A lot of it is definitely circumstantial. I wonder if Curry had been on the Kings… or if he had been white… or some other things. Jimmer has loads of talent but his lifestyle and game just didn’t translate to the nba.

One other thing that was interesting about that article is that it shed some light on why BYU can’t get past the Gonzaga thing in the wcc. We keep getting reminded of the “Jimmer destroys Gonzaga” moment in the ncaa tournament. I still say that, while it was a great moment in BYU sports, it has had long lasting effects on BYU"s status in the wcc. It has been what, 5 or 6 full seasons now?, that BYU has played the role of little brother to Gonzaga in the wcc. So many hopeful BYU fans keep saying that this is going to change in the future… wait till next year they say… An all too familiar refrain over the past 5 or 6 seasons.

All years after we had what kind of post presence? None. We haven’t been Gonzaga because of that. And when we had the opportunity we get Delevadogad.
Are you serious about putting Jimmer in the same league as Curry? Honestly. Has nothing to do if Curry was white or blah blah blah. He’s quicker, better defender and a much more consistent shooter in the NBA.

just looking at the end of the year ncaa stats.
KC number two in division 1 for turnovers.
KC number two in division 1 for assists.

assist per turnover …