Unless the coaches want them to be so far off. We all see it. Other teams do it and get away with it. What’s the difference?
The passers are but the receiver is often in the wrong place. There are just a lot of problems. Perhaps the defensive coach is having troubles his first year.
Excellent question Glenn and props on your funnies in the post before this one. I keep trying to come up with ideas for why this team continues to do the same things and commit the same turnovers, the same poor defense, etc. over and over. I have a theory that they are trapped in their high school days and just aren’t capable of maturing their game. There are times when Mika looks like a nba talent and then he looks like he is learning how to play the game, same with Haws, Emery and Bryant. Childs is the only true freshman, right out of high school and he makes some mistakes but he looks to me like he is improving more than the others.
The lack of maturity and growth is the biggest issue… why it is so are what reason are behind it I don’t know.
Age…
Thanks for getting my attempt at humor. After the tepid response I started regretting the post but its reflective of my attitude about the season at this point. The season has been underwhelming and its hard for me to get either worked-up or excited anymore, hence a shot at humor. You know the program is struggling when Deseret News starts putting out articles like “Dave Rose’s 30 most memorable victories” and the athletic department’s hoopla about achieving 300 victories as if they need to remind us what a great coach and program Rose has established. I think Rose has done a nice job and has established a good program. He would probably like nothing more than to go out on top and maybe have the new annex named after him. The major financial donor for the annex seems to love Dave Rose so if he wanted it called the Rose Annex it would probably happen. Personally, I think Rose was so looking forward to coaching the current group of players for three years and really making some noise in the basketball world. This wasn’t the start he was looking for but maybe the next 2-3 years will turn out great. Who knows? Does Dave Rose still have what it takes to develop a great team? I think a lot will depend on whether Mika sticks around to help make it happen. He also needs to build more depth and get some better defenders on the roster. I hope he can figure it out.
Like Glenn, I turned the game off at half time. Same reason. I watched three offensive charges called against BYU, were two were clearly blocking fouls. The defender was still moving into position when the charge happen (feet still sliding).
A couple of games ago, I heard one of the talking heads discussing how BYU ranks 8th or 9th in the WCC at 3pt shooting percentage. Going to be difficult to come back with the 3 against any WCC team.
I can’t wait until next year. We’ll be much better. (I’m not sure if I want to laugh or cry at those statements…)
HEY, you got the silver lining in this grease fire of season!!! I think Mika kinda HAS to come back now!..if we finish 21-12 (and I’m being generous there), we may not even make the NIT (as hard as that is to believe). I think Mika has too much pride to jump off a burning, sinking ship feeling like his life goal of playing for BYU ended like this. Sabonis was a first round pick, and Mika has his same strength but far superior overall athleticism and is a way better shooter. Mika will go–it’s just a question of when. Any-hoo, Our season ended for me when we lost to UVU–not that we lost, but it showed me that we cannot or will not play defense, even against bad teams. Remember Isaac Nielsen from UVU, who looked like Larry Bird against us? He has scored in double figures in two of his last 10 games, against teams that make the WCC look like Who’s Who of Basketball. UVU is 2-6 in conference that shouldn’t even be in D1 (look at the WAC). UVU is abysmal. UVU hung 114 on us. In their 17 games since, they have scored over 80 JUST THREE TIMES (92 vs the mighty University of Texas-Rio Grande, 85 in a loss to Weber State, and 86 v Univ Missouri-Kansas City). UVU is a terrible, terrible team that ran us out of the gym. What I saw vs Pepperdine just looked like the same thing, except that, unlike UVU, it really didn’t surprise any of us.
I have some thoughts on where things go from here. I am hopeful. I know that my generally critical tone may not make it seem like I am but it doesn’t change the fact that I am. After decades of being a BYU fan I have become trapped into the belief that success for BYU will translate into publicity for the church and gospel. That has caused me to become more invested than I probably should be. My own experiences at BYU have also formed my perspective. I loved going to school there but I often despised the hypocritical atmosphere that was so pervasive. Unfortunately my perception is that it still exists. It is very difficult to gain entrance there and I believe it contributes to arrogance, special treatment, etc. When someone says they go to BYU, they often feel the need to clarify whether it is Provo or Idaho… anyhow, I am rambling because it is Sat. morning.
My point is that there are reasons why this team and these players are not improving (in spite of what grasshopper claims) and it involves multiple factors.
In spite of the expectations and hype for the LP3, I think it has been disastrous overall for the team and BYU basketball in general. I believe it has resulted in a lack of competitive practices, caste system amongst players, lack of effort because of the lack of accountability, arrogance and inability to see reality. I think it is a combination of coaching (allowing this culture to exist) and players immaturity in perpetuating it. I know some of you will understand without a lot of explanation. I also believe it would be more easily explained in a verbal discussion. It might require a 20 minute discussion but I believe my perceptions are accurate and they are based on a lot of observation. All of the problems we see with defense, forced effort on offense, lack of teamwork, turnovers and lackadaisical play on both ends of the court, playing time allocation, etc. contribute to what I believe is happening.
I believe the primary solution will be found if and when the team understands all of this and matures. That doesn’t necessarily mean experience but it may help. It is more of a commitment on the part of the main players to be willing to do what it will take to make the entire team better. We will see if they can.
I have a theory: Rose is not capable of teaching defense.
At this point, and I listened to the Cleveland interview, I don’t blame Rose for the “inability to teach defense”. There needs to be accountability by the players themselves and a willingness to do what needs to be done to actually PLAY defense. If they don’t know how to do it at this point in time, nothing a coach can “TEACH” them is going to help. Defense is all about effort and a willingness to work.
Glenn, there have been plenty of us on this board calling for more time for both Guinn and Dastrup, and now we see them in Feb when it should have happened back in Oct. DISASTER No team chemistry, no flow on offense. Granted Rose has had to deal with key injuries but even without injury, Rose would have had to insert Guinn for defense and body size. He would have had to develop Dastrup because of Mika’s history of early fouls.
Now for Mika. Rose has never cared much for developing big men. BYU big men can go 3-4 years and they play pretty much the same. With a super athletic Mika, I would have him picking for Haws or Emery and roling for an Oop gunk but no, we see the ball dump down low to Mika and our guards just stand there. I would always have a guy cut when Mika gets the ball down low just so teams can’t double Mika and we get an easy layin. As it is we all stand around when the ball goes into Mika when everyone should be moving off ball.
In the NBA Mika would NEVER play the down low game, he would have to come up and set picks for guards and be ready for a 10 foot shot on the roll or a Oop dunk so why would Rose not be doing any of these things unless Rose does not care.
You make some great points here Chris, when it comes to Mika and his game. Everyone keeps yapping about him being a lottery pick but I say he has a long way to go before that happens. He is trying to force it way too much on offense and isn’t playing strong defensively, allowing players to go around him and jumping at pump fakes too much.
Mika and Childs both fouled out last game and played a combined 38 minutes in the game (Mika - 22, Childs - 16) and that is terrible.
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I agree to some extent but it does not answer the fact that Rose teams away lose on the road to crappy teams. Last year’s record with a senior laden team and an NBA player, almost identical. This is a coaching problem pure and simple. You called me out with the SMC comparison (Slow White Kids) and there is no doubt that Bennett is almost unstoppable with his “value possession offense with 0 tolerance of hero ball” and their sound defense.
Rose always loses on the road and Rose always loses in dance games…defense is 50% of the game.
I can’t argue with that, you are right.
I agree with what you’re saying. What frustrates me is that Rose doesn’t operate in a vacuum. Terry Nashif is supposedly running the offense, granted with Rose’s approval. But, I suspect Nashif has some degree of freedom to put in his own twists/plays and Dave will support that. It’s a staff issue too as I see it. I’d love to see you take Nashif fishing so you could find out what’s going on behind the scenes and why they aren’t implementing the pick and roll more often and what the problem is with the defensive play in his opinion.
In case you are wondering what we have coming back from missions and new recruits, here’s the list I have. Kolby Lee looks like a pretty solid player but he’ll be leaving on a mission this summer.
Well… I’m guessing Worthington gets more playing time than Dastrup because he got more when Nielsen was here too and his basketball IQ is so high… LOL. Also, that Popoola kid will have to wait a couple years because he will be behind Haws, Emery and Bryant. I mean these things are already etched in stone, right?
I thought it was a joke how Rose said that Dastrup played more in the Pepperdine game because he has worked so hard in practice and deserved more minutes. Apparently he hasn’t been working in practice the entire season, except on his cheerleading moves, and that is why he hasn’t played much…
I’m not buying the coach speak, I’m not buying the culture and if things don’t change drastically, I’m not buying the belief that BYU is a ncaa tourney team, let alone a sweet 16 team.
Everything I have talked about and brought up since the very beginning of the season has happened and continues to unfold as the season progresses. I know exactly what is happening, just like I did last season and the season before. I’m sorry if you don’t see that.
The “announcers” are basically excuse makers and apologists for the product BYU has put out on the court. You do the same thing… make up excuses. Stop with the “young team” nonsense. They have played together before. The problem is that they aren’t developing, progressing and improving while the rest of the wcc does. Pepperdine has inferior talent and multiple injury issues, yet they score 100 points vs. BYU? The Cougars should be getting better as the season goes on… and they’re not.
Why next year? They don’t know how to “cut”? or space themselves on the floor? Every other team (young, inexperienced, etc.) does, why not BYU? Better defense is a matter of effort and teamwork (helping out, etc.) and why will the shooting be better? Pepperdine had a freshman bench guy that went off on BYU. His “shooting” looked great… why next year as opposed to now?
I wasn’t going to respond to your post because it was pure nonsense. I have no reason to defend anything I’ve said because it is all true.
The announcers were not BYU people. They understand too. Just because they played in high school together 3 years ago doesn’t mean anything now at this level. Patience with this group is the key…
Seriously? It doesn’t mean anything? It has been 25 years since I played intramural basketball with the guys I went to college with. Every once in awhile I get on the court with one or two of them (playing against younger guys) and we still remember the strengths/weaknesses of each other and the passes that work and the plays that work, etc. Don’t tell me it doesn’t mean anything. It is a definite advantage to play with guys you have played with before, ESPECIALLY AT THIS LEVEL!
This season has been all about “patience” but the season is almost over and I haven’t seen much - TEAMWISE - that leads me to believe it will get better next season. I see some great individual play every once in awhile but they still lose those games. When I see the TEAM begin to mature, particularly on defense, then I will accept the call for “patience”.
Isn’t Nashiff in charge of the offense. I don’t ever remembering him being dominant. From the quotes above there is too much standing around, where are the pick and rolls? True they are scoring a lot of points but seem to go cold out of the Marriot Center.