What do members of the true Church feel about Rose not being inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame?
Seems that after enough time passed, his efforts on the field should have been remembered in the HOF. Same with Shoeless Joe Jackson.
I guess if we go only by what the guy did on the field he should be in the Hall of Fame. The same could be said about Barry Bonds, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, and a few others.
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After penalty time, which shouldn’t be for life for what they did.
I would say the vast majority of “members” do not care one way or the other. It does not affect their eternal salvation one bit.
Kind of a strange comment if you asked me.
As for someone who cares about Baseball, Rose broke the cardinal rule (at the time) of betting on your own team to win or lose, both as a player and as a coach.
For that, he should not be inducted into the hall of fame because he tarnished the sport by his actions.
Growing up, I was a big Pete Rose fan, he was an incredible player. But his behavior and the way he treated others was not very good. then he gambles on his own team games? that is a BIG NO, NO!
We do not know for sure if Pete through games because of his gambling, but the appearance that he might did, tarnished the integrity of the game.
No HALL for Rose.
The same goes for shoeless, they (black sox scandal) gambled and worst of all caught fixing the World Series games.
as for the others, they tried to “cheat” by using body enhancing drugs to increase performance. Although McGwire said when he was taking the substance, at the time that particular one was not on the banned list. But once it was, Mark stopped using it.
I fully believe in the repentance and forgiveness principles of the gospel; everyone makes mistakes and needs to overcome them through this process.
However, that does not take away the consequences of the person bad decisions. Someone who makes a bad decision and commits a crime, may repent, but he still has to serve his time.
The pity with Bonds and Clemens is that their numbers probably would have been good enough to make the Hall even if they hadn’t used banned substances. Bonds won 3 MVP awards before he started juicing. He wouldn’t have set all those records but he would have still had some great numbers.
The Hall is sometimes a joke anyway. They keep a great player like Curt Schilling out because the woke writers don’t like his politics. Jeff Kent had a great career and probably won’t make it because the writers didn’t like him. His numbers make him a marginal Hall of Famer but if he had been a popular guy he might make it. Back in the early seventies a whole bunch of New York Giants and Cardinal players from the 20s and 30s were voted in by the veterans committee and all of them were really good players but not Hall of Fame caliber. A guy named Frank Frisch who was a teammate of all them was on the committee and lobbied for them. Frisch was a deserving Hall of Famer and a very popular persuasive guy and he got a bunch of his friends selected.
Why isn’t Dale Murphy in and Kirby Puckett is in? I think Dale was as good as Pickett. Neither guy made an overwhelming statistical case but both were great players for a few years. One is in and the other isn’t.
It seems the Hall and baseball has a zero tolerance policy on gambling and it is hard to argue with. The steroid users get votes every year but so far not enough votes. Apparently the Hall
doesn’t have an ironclad rule about drug use but most of the baseball writers won’t vote for those who used steroids. I have a little different view. If the guy would have made it anyway and started using the juice later in his career I would look at his numbers before he started using the steroids. In Bonds case he went from being a 30-40 homer a year guy to the 50s and then to 76 or whatever it was. You hit 30-40 a year over the long haul you are a Hall of Famer especially if you were a complete player like Bonds was.
So far, this is the only sane answer. Floyd bases his opinion on emotions and nothing to do with what he did on the field or any indication that a game was thrown or he didn’t give 110% to win the game(s). Same with Shoeless Joe as there was no indication he through the game(s) as he hit amazingly well. And your other post was kinda all over the place brings up the politics and racial bias as well. There were actually some on their committee that didn’t vote Willie Mays in on his first ballot. Maybe it had to do with the red juice. And, because there are different reasons why some are in and some aren’t, it can only be legit based on a person’s records of what they did in the game. Everything else is subjective and makes their reasons meaningless, judgmental, prejudiced, racist and all the rest. I’m sure there are some that would leave Koufax off the list for being gay.
What Rose did on the Field? What about betting on the under/over on the game which HE PETE ROSE could influence while “On the FIELD”?
Shoeless Joe and his cronies “threw World series games” “WHILE ON THE FIELD!”
So, if someone commits a crime, he should not be punished because what he did “on the field”?
Is that what you are saying? That “cheating” and “throwing games for financial gains” is okay?
Willie Mays was on the first ballot for the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1979. He was inducted that year, but he did not receive unanimous support. [Mays fell 23 votes short of a unanimous selection]. This was not uncommon, as even other legendary players like Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth did not receive unanimous votes either.
So, based on this comment, Shoeless Joe should be in the HOF because of his abilities on the field, even though he was caught “throwing World Series games” for personal financial gains.
Interesting way to look at corruption.
Do you know the real story about Shoeless Joe? No you don’t. You might want to look into it. Even then, let their whole body of work on the field decide. It’s interesting how Rose’s hit record stands and put on a pedestal by baseball when it helps their bottom line. The real question is, what does being in the HOF represent? Character? LOL!
The Hall of Fame should represent more than statistics. It should represent integrity for the game. If someone knowingly broke the rules of baseball, he doesn’t represent integrity for the game and would not receive my vote. Seems a shame to have a great career and cheapen it by doing something you didn’t need to do. Rose, knowingly broke the rules and was banned for life, really a shame, but athletes are not any different than we in the public. You do certain things, there are penalties. Bonds was one of the great baseball players in the history of the game-but he will possibly never make the Hall of Fame by doing something he never needed to do. Makes me ill.
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I think the real question is that there’s no clear rules on who gets in and who doesn’t. It’s all subjective. Also, what is worse for integrity, gambling or spousal abuse/womanizing? It’s like the Presidential race. Kamala’s sleeping with men to the top or Trump and his sins? We choose Trump because he did the job needed when he was President. We vote for him, why not Rose?
HOF should represent more than stats but there are guys in it who were just real good players. So sometimes stats count and sometimes they don’t so much. The baseball writers are like most journalists these days. They aren’t always objective. My post was quite a ramble. I guess Bonds stats were considerably padded by his steroid use and it gave him and his team a competitive advantage but there were guys on literally every team doing it so I am not sure how much of an advantage it gave the Giants. Nearly every slugger of that era was juicing and there were guys who went from hitting 20 homers to 50 overnight. Not sure who from that era was clean. Maybe Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, and a few others.
I think you are looking at it from a church perspective. There are no laws for who you are sleeping with from a public point of view. Clinton probably got more votes for his immoral behavior than his policies. All of these players we are talking about, I admired for their athleticism. We have to understand, that penalties are not only dished out to punish an individual, but to discourage others from doing the same thing. The fact is that Shoeless and Pete have passed on and personally they are hopefully in a better place with a greater understanding of honesty. Hopefully young athletes take a closer look at decisions they make in their athletic careers. Baseball has to make decisions based within the rules of baseball. What Harris or anyone outside of baseball is doing is not relevant. Would Bonds have hit 74 home runs without performance enhancing drugs? I don’t really know, but I know his physical stature changed dramatically when he left the Pirates. Doesn’t hardly seem fair to the Ruth’s and Maris’s if it did and was against the rules. Their are great examples out there of athletes who can inspire all of us. I love watching Ohtani, and would be really disappointed if he was found breaking rules. I really like him as much for his politeness as I do for all the records he is shattering
Very well thoughtful and written response. Let me first cover a gospel response that there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. That sin wipes out all perfect knowledge who, what, where, when and why the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Any other sin can be forgiven. May take years, decades for things like murder, adultery and so on. A complete and full repentant heart is a must. A person with integrity would never commit the unpardonable sin.
With this in mind, we are saying that gambling on baseball cannot be forgiven, ever. There is the analogy. Perhaps baseball also has another forever ban, steroids. If it’s written in stone by the HOF own bible then no one committing these baseball unpardonable sins can ever get into the baseball heaven of HOF. I’m not aware of anything written in stone for players to know about.
Now, for Sports, heck, look how we revere Jim McMahan who broke all sorts of BYU rules. Anyone suggest Jim shouldn’t have his jersey retired in the BYU HOF? We would simply say “yes” based on his career with BYU and in the NFL. So, what is the standard “integrity” based on?
Just a question, do players play over the years thinking about and desiring to be in the HOF? Certainly after they stop playing. But, before?
Not really, look at Bond’s HR record. Pretty much had only one year of more than 49 homers. 2001 had 73. Other than that, nothing really better than Hank Aaron.
Did you ever really get into body or power lifting? I went from 155 pounds to 195 pounds in about 2 years without steroids or any powder drinks. During the summer when I was a teacher. I’d spend 6-8 hours in the gym lifting without steroids. During the school year, 4 hours a day except on Saturdays where I worked at the gym and lifted another 6 hours. It can be done.
There again, Jim was a great qb and I have no problem with any awards he gets that are football 
related. He probably wouldn’t get awards in some areas, just like many of us. The problem with Bonds, is, he would have been a hall of famer without the home runs or the PED’s. Probably McGuire also. I have lifted except for my military time, all my life. I have torn a RC benching 300+ and now have torn the other one. Anymore light lifting and cycling 
are my main old man activities. Life is good and pretty well stress free
I find it interesting that every time disagrees with you, you throw the “real story” card. You have no clue what I know or don’t know.
But since you asked, Baseball is one of my passions since I was a kid, I have read lots and lots of books about the game and the players who played it, including historical books about Joseph Jefferson Jackson also known as “Shoeless Joe Jackson”.
A brief synopsis of Joe’s ban:
He and seven teammates on the Chicago White Sox were accused of conspiring with gamblers to throw the 1919 World Series to the Cincinnati Reds. They were acquitted following a jury trial in 1921, but newly appointed baseball commissioner Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis barred them for life from professional baseball. Debate has raged ever since over the extent of Jackson’s participation in the scheme. He claimed his teammates gave his name to the gamblers even though he hadn’t agreed to participate, and the other players admitted that Jackson never attended meetings about the fix. Though Jackson signed a confession in 1920 stating that he was paid $5,000 (out of the $20,000 he was promised), he later asserted that a team lawyer manipulated him into signing a document he didn’t fully understand.
The problem with history, is that you always need to read it from various viewpoints to understand the truth of what was going on at the time.
Anyone who thinks the election nominating process for both parties is not rigged, is delusional.
And because of that, the BYU President changed the way things were handled at BYU when it came to sports. All of sudden, players were put under a microscope, being reported for every little in fraction.
BTW, McMahon was not allowed to be in the BYU HOF until he graduated, which he did in 2014.
your knowledge and common sense amazes me at times. Funny, I went to college on a baseball schollie…my least favorite sport. Loved football but at 165 and playing middle linebacker probably messed up the back. But Basketball…now…had a good 40 year run.
Dale Murphy. IS in, just a matter of time. What a stud. What a great human being
Floyd, Rose said he never bet on his own games??? just asking. Gamble on others not a problem to me but on your own team, depends if he ever bet against a win, now that would be a big NO NO
Hopper, only you would come up with this Sh’t…
Well put.
Jimmy Mac…made the bears “Da Bears”, Made BYU a household name, paved the way for future stars including our beloved Steve Young and Detmer. Only a goofball would bring up his name in this discussion.
Super glad when he graduated and got his seat in the BYU HoF well deserved even though his off field antics were colorful…
As a child, moved to the US for the first time to southern Ohio and the Big Red Machine…we loved Pete and the boys…I think he mostly got what he deserved, like most folks. Like Shoeless Joe, Pete will be remembered more than most HoF members…because of his on the field performance and his notoriety…
I played catcher because I preferred Bench…
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He did not admit to gambling on baseball until 2004, when he wrote in his autobiography that he bet both as a player and a manager but never against his own team.
Meaning that he did bet on his team to win the games.
Shoeless Joe’s World Series record speaks for itself that he did nothing to throw that series. And, he was acquitted. So, why the lifetime ban? He should be in the HOF. So should Rose for his work as a player. He paid his price to society and baseball. Far more of society will welcome him into the HOF than the self righteous who keep him out.
Yep, seems like someone in BYU’s HOF should be a graduate of BYU. I have no problem with that. Makes sense.