Can’t live at BYU and not have a lot of the fullness of the Gospel rub off on you.
Seems like Grey has changed his attitude since being at BYU.
Good points grass.
So, the NFL on their first game are going to sing two national anthems. The Star Spangled Banner and the Black National Anthem. We are going backwards to segregation. Hopefully no one will watch and advertisers will pull their ads and crash the league. We are one nation under God.
The star spangled banner is for all Americans, no matter what color your skin is. This is getting ridiculous… people trying to destroy the country in the name of what?
Are we one nation under God, indivisible or a nation riven by grievance, race and resentment of our brothers and sisters? Are we going to make the right choice or destroy the greatest nation in history for liberty, freedom, the pursuit of happiness and justice for all? We are the only multi-racial democracy that’s worked in the last 244 years.
America has not been a multiracial democracy for 244 years. In fact we are not even a pure democracy. You say “liberty, freedom, the pursuit of happiness, and justice for all”. We have never reached that ideal. If you would like to provide me the year we attained that I would gladly reconsider. Heck, I was directly lied to by a police sergeant covering up for an officer last year and had it confirmed by the DA who was too scared to cause a rift with the police chief in my conservative city.
In 1776, when we declared our independence from a totalitarian Great Britain, was there only one race as defined by BLM? No. We had multi people of different skin color inside our 13 eventual states. As defined by God and MLK, there is but one race, the human race. But that isn’t what we are hearing today by the race baiters. So, based on the quote, I’m correct so far.
Are we a pure democracy? No. But I didn’t write that we are and and thank God we aren’t. If we were we would be lead by mob rule. We are seeing some of that in our big cities. Chas, as an example ended up falling into a beginning state of Lord of the Flies. We are a Constitutional Republic or a nation of laws.
Let’s remember that in 1620, the people came here with certain ideals of pursuing the right to own their property and live their religions. They established state where those of the same religion could do so. They brought slaves over rounded up by their own people white Irish and black Africans. Even blacks in America owned black slaves. So, by the time the Founding Fathers came along, and Taxation got so high from the King of England that they couldn’t pursue their rights to property and happiness the colonists revolted. They didn’t agree on everything except no more totalitarianism. They fought and won. They established a Constitution that could end oppression by legal methods. So, did we start perfect or ideal to your hope? Nope. Did we start with the hope of all people having equal everything? Nope. Did we start by everyone having an opportunity to pursue equality and opportunity? Yes. Have we reached it? No. Will we? No. Not until Satan is bound. Christ said there will always be poor amongst us. There will always be opposition. Because of this, we need laws and ways to make sure enough people will uphold the laws voted by the people so that as many people of the human race can obtain as much of their pursuit of their happiness without falling into a society of total confusion and lawlessness and immortality.
There’s been only one perfect man to walk this earth. The rest of us are imperfect. Because of that, we need a system that can get as close to having liberty, freedom and the ability to pursue happiness. I look around and see the rest of the world and don’t see one country close to where we had come just 6 months ago. Unemployment the lowest in history. Taxes being lowered. Regulations that caused business to leave the country gone. Corporations coming back giving jobs to unemployed blacks and Hispanics. Now, we hear the cry of higher taxation. High regulations again. The cry of Marxism by the founder of BLM and most of their leaders. I hear Marxism coming from Democrat leaders. I hear Farrakhan’s cry for segregation and destruction of the Jews again. Why?
I’m with with you on injustice by some in law. Not just police but in the courts as well. We need Constitutional Justices. Not “Social Justice” which is another phase for Marxism and mob rule justice. I think we were moving forward up until the pandemic hit. Now, people have nothing to do. Those out of work and school have too much time on their hands. So, for the sake of all people, can’t we all just get along until the pandemic is controlled? Instead of using it to tear down the greatest free nation ever allowed to exist on the world? The nation that has used its resources to lift many countries out of poverty and communism and fascism?
We aren’t perfect. There is no way for man to establish the “ideal.” Only Christ can do that and he will. In the meantime, all people of God should come to your defense when you have been wrongly treated. And I would hope the same would be true if I’m wrongly treated. As MLK said, and I repeat at every community MLK day in our town as a member of our town’s Ministerial Association, “We are all of one race, the human race.” May God teach us all patience and love.
Oh, and I forgot to mention I look forward to your opinions as well. Education and communication is important. Shutting down speech, no matter how bad it seems, only suppressed inner feelings and causes future anger.
I agree about opinions but unfortunately your opinions, others on this board, as well as the writings of past prophets have taught me that the church was and continues to have a strong racist past. Those of us who can acknowledge it might be able to keep the youth of the church from leaving because of the beliefs of those who have power in the church. I know of many mormons showing up to BLM protests fully armed looking for trouble. I’m sure you could scripture and verse why they need to point weapons at people. That is not Christ like and has led me to believe that maybe it has no place for the likes of me.
I don’t like acts of violence as I believe in the 3 percent rule we will always have it. 3 percent of the population cause the majority of problems. You get 1000 protesters and you will get 30 people who are violent. I would say the same for church members. 3 percent are child molesters, scam artists, abusive husbands, etc. They make the whole look bad to the outside.
Before you say that the southern right wing isn’t racist, I would tell you to visit and listen in any bar that hangs the Confederate flag. If you believe that flag represents a culture, it does. It has a strong presence in many police departments in America. Read the first few paragraphs of the South Carolina declaration of independence and it clears the culture up for you. Why don’t you write what our white Mormon prophets were saying about blacks in the 1st half of 20th century?
Also there is no pandemic it is a hoax that people are over reacting too right? That’s what your prophetic voice was spewing months ago.
Much of what you write is true. Before I go on, you should know I was born Jewish and was baptized at BYU in 1977. Most racist people are also Jew hater bigots as well. We have that in common. I was called “Jew Boy” by those I though were my friends. When I was baptized and graduated, returning to Southern California, I worked for 2 years before landing a full time teaching job. Kids in the Church would tell their friends I was a Mormon. I’d get asked often how many wives I had. Many friends would look at me strange when they found I was Mormon. In other places than Utah, Mormons have received religious bigotry since 1820. My purpose for relating this to you is “hate” comes at many for different reasons. Yet, as you point out, that’s 3%. I’d say 5%.
I was at BYU when President Kimball’s message came over the school’s intercom in June of 1978. I could not see or hear one person unhappy for the revelation. Mary Sturlaugiston (spelling) was in my badminton class and we all hugged and cried with her. I heard that 95% of temple workers were ecstatic about it and welcomed blacks into the Temple.
I would also say the same about police officers. A small faction are racists and bigots. Whites against blacks and blacks against whites. Why would their not be blacks who hate whites? However, I think there is also a small percentage of blacks who hate whites as well.
I have to wonder if you believe as Brother Gray does that there has been only one perfect person to walk this land? Because God has always worked with imperfect men and women. I’m sure the Founding Fathers of our nation were highly imperfect. But they did listen to the still small voice of the Holy Ghost to establish this nation free from Great Britain. And then, put in order the directions to build the nation to a better nation of people over time. I believe we have. And, with your 3% rule I think you know we have.
Do you believe in reparations for blacks? 600,000 white people died so blacks could be freed from slavery. If so, when do I get my reparations for 600,000 dying for freedom? What really is all this contention about today?
As far as what leaders in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have said or done, they were imperfect leaders. Why do you think that we believe they were perfect? They furthered the work of the Lord and only God will judge them. Today, the only hatred I see is black on white . And whites who never had an ounce of racism and bigotry shaming themselves for something they never did or felt. I don’t believe the Church is true because of what someone said in their personal statements. The Holy Ghost has converted me, not a man.
I hope I write in a way that you don’t feel like you are being attacked. As Jcoug says, I don’t always convey my thoughts clearly on paper.
I am white and grew up mostly in the south. I could never understand, from a young age, putting other people down because of the color of their skin. I have never, even once, verbally disparaged another person due to their race or other circumstances different than mine. Neither have I ever, not even one time, been physically violent to another person.
I have however suffered physical harm at the hands of specific black people and also been threatened with bodily harm on 2 other occasions. All 3 of these incidents happened because I was in places that those specific black people deemed not my place to occupy. I realize (sarcastically) that it is impossible for black people to be racists - at least that is what I have heard over and over and over. I can honestly say that while I still harbor anger towards the specific people who acted unjustly toward me, I do not feel any form of anger towards black people in general.
Except for the Savior, no other human being, who has ever lived, is free of human frailties. That goes for regular joes and janes all the way up to leaders of all kinds, including church leaders. The prophets of old and recent have been rebuked by God. I regard as abject stupidity, the absolutist, black and white thinking about historical persons and events. I often wonder what people two hundred years from now will think about people and the circumstances of today. I bet there will be some very harsh rhetoric.
They will be asking why did the greatest nation on the planet that came so far in a short period of time destroy itself by falling into the depths of communism by fascist methods. The answer, everyone went crazy during a pandemic and turned on each other. Love was nowhere to be found in all the world.
Yeah, had a son that used Heroin. Cops would lie to my face to get what they wanted from him and me. Get used to it. They are so used to dealing with low lifes that they forget who they are talking to…do I still support police and the justice system? Absolutely.
Do I think that this unrest is a joke? BLM protests? They came to our city, ran to a SUV, the driver did not like that, tried to move out and a guy shot him, he powered up and ran over a few protesters, now they want to prosecute the driver. A few hundred citizens showed up the next day with guns, all packing. Here are my thoughts……
You show up at my city, in my neighborhood and try your Seattle crap, we will shoot your ■■■. We don’t put up with basement dwelling kids who have never earned anything in their life trying to dictate their spoiled will to those that have worked hard their entire lives to own a home and never took a dime from anyone. We died in foreign soil for our freedoms and will never put up with this protest crap from spoiled brats.
100 false…entire communities have lived that ideal for many decades. Those who would say that have never left American soil and seen how the rest of the world works. America is great BECAUSE of the diversity and tolerance we show to ethnicities from around the world.
I have traveled throughout the entire world, visited every continent, spent time in Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist’s homes. Have friends from around the world. I do know of what I speak. CNN may try to paint a picture of American hate but they are in the business from saying anything to get butts in front of TVs. Only the weak minded would believe anything any news outlet spews out today. America is the Bastian of Freedom, and the pursuit of happiness. Try saying that to a North Korean, or a Russian, or Venezuelan (who by the way, was enjoying true happiness before Chavez or Mordero were elected) and ran that country into the toilet. Been there before and after.
You are either a problem starter or a problem solver, it is that simple.
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furthermore, you can’t even open your mouth in most of the world or you will get your butt shot off, so don’t go spouting to me that there is this or that in America.
If there is even a shred of Racism in America, it is because of the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world stirring things up.
I am glad that you live in a utopia where you see all good. I was molested by a bishop and then told by a higher up in my stake later on that I would be in trouble if I reported it. I watched as my sister came home because Mormon men beat her up for being lesbian. I watched Mormon men for years belittle anyone who had a different viewpoint that wasn’t to the right. I was beat for 15 minutes by a Mormon sheriff when I was 7 because I didn’t go he bed when his niece was babysitting me. Nope single moms couldn’t fight that in Mormon controlled small towns of Southeast Idaho. He’ll our church can’t even figure out where it stands on the lgtbq issue. I know many good mormons who are openly racist in private coversations.
What I am saying is that most people on this board have proven more to the outside world why people of differing backgrounds should never feel safe at church.
I am proud of my little sister who had an AR-15 pointed at her by many cowardly Mormon men as she stood side by side with a black man who was scared for his life while marching.
I think you guys just helped me solve an issue that I have struggled with since childhood. I can honestly say you and Scotts posts have helped me recognize that I no longer believe in the Christ portrayed in the Mormon church. Its members haveconsistantly showed me that he doesn’t exist. I like the new testament Christ who taught the B attitudes more than the one who ordered the blood atonement.
I hope that all of your children grow up knowing a loving God instead of Mormon God whose actions are mirrored in your posts.
Hi 
5!!!
This idea that our country is flawed from the beginning and hasn’t gotten better is completely false. That only gives some blacks the idea that anything they do is the white man’s fault. That includes shooting other blacks, killing little black children, tearing down statues and behaving badly. Again, I believe this is the minority of blacks. The 3 or 5 percentile.
You are right, we have never been a democracy, because we are a democratic republic.
You are also right about the multiracial issue. Since the beginning white people have controlled our government. Even though we had freed blacks, they were never equal to whites when it came to justice and equality.
Yes we had white indentured servants, but they were treated better than the slaves.
Don’t get me started on what whites did yo the Indians.
We have a not so clean past, but I think we have co.e along ways since 1964.
The problem with most whites, is that they only believe what they want about our historical events.
What? What a statement. Explain please?
I must disagree with you on that. If a member of the church is openly racist in any conversation they are not “good mormons”. Just needed to clarify that.
Is this Devmo? of previous posts? I must agree with much of what you are saying because I think you are being honest. Your perspective may be a bit jaded (or so it sounds) but the events you are describing are likely true and correct. Unfortunately I don’t clearly see how that perspective is transferring to your opinion of the church. The restored gospel of Jesus Christ is true. People may not live it and many more will dispute it but it is true regardless. One day all those who have lived on this earth will have the opportunity to accept it and participate in eternal ordinances. The color of a persons skin, for crying out loud, does not matter when it comes to these eternal truths.
Yes, there have been many, and there will be many more, who are ignorant of so many things and they act accordingly but that doesn’t change the truth of the gospel, it only shows how imperfect they are.
I have experienced some of the same things that many of you have posted here but I do my best to not let it affect me in a way that brings myself or others down.
Hope you are doing well, this “plandemic” is making us all a little edgy and worn out.