Santa clara game

watched 2nd half. I applaud effort, but what a garbage team. Maybe the worst shooting team in BYU history - at least in recent memory. Even when SC gave them many chances to get back in the game they just keep throwing up trash shots or turned the ball over. or missed foul shots.
Why is so hard for BYU to get players at the D1 level to that can make threes and can shoot free throws? Most of these guys have practiced three-pointers and free throws since they were 6 years old. They - are - just - not - good.
If I were a GM and could trade players like the NBA, I would trade all but Fous. Unfortunately, there is no trade value to really any of the other players. Oh well, shouldn’t have to worry about any of them entering the transfer portal. Or maybe that would be a good thing.

I haven’t watched it yet. But, looking at the stats it looks like we are back to hero ball. Were we back with the weave and not getting the ball to Fousse?

Yes and not often enough. Play-by-play guys said (again, like previous games) that need to get ball into Fous. It wasn’t bad trying to pass ball, they just are terrible shooters.

No energy, bad defense, bad decisions, Your thoughts on Mark Madsen? UVU is first in the WAC (yeah I know it’s the WAC and Mark Pope’s UVU teams also did pretty well in the time he coached there.)

Pope has done well with this team. However, we were within 6 towards the end of the 1st half. SC began to pull away. Pope didn’t call time out until we were down by 17. Time outs usually stop runs. That was a coaching error. Had we kept it within single digits, we could have still won the game with our poor shooting and free throw shooting.

I don’t know if you could say he has done well. The team is making the same mistakes it did in November. More than a couple of close games could have been won with fewer coaching errors. Nearly 30 games in and it feels like were at step one.

He has a rag tag team and young at that. But, that one sticks out. I hate the weave. Wastes time. Gives defenses a way to push us out and turn the ball over. And, it doesn’t give good angles to pass it in to the post.

BTW Gonzaga 21 to 4 after 5+ minutes. Refs are zero factor.

(thought I sent an hour ago) Now Zags up by almost 50. Yikes!
Really have no opinion about Madsen. Can he get better shooters.?

That’s the thing. We win when we can shoot. Or, at least make it a game. 7-23 from 3 and 15-21 FT and we win.
I liked Stewart’s game tonight. He should get minutes and sit Waterman more. We actually played a decent game. Ran different offenses but couldn’t shoot the three ball. Only 9 turnovers. The good thing is this is a young team. We will still need another point guard next year. And we have to get some real bigs that can play in the paint.

Even the BYUTV commentators were saying tonight that you can’t use the “team is young” excuse anymore. The team lacked energy and focus and definitely leadership This is sad not only because it is BYU but because Mark Pope has assembled a group of great individuals that represent the university well. Unfortunately, even this late in the season he hasn’t gotten them to play as a team. We need higher quality players and better leadership because as someone else has written, “None of them would play a lot anywhere else on a P5 team. Fouss is the only one I’d worry about.”

I have to think this team is the worst overall since 1996-1997 season.

Not sure if it is Pope or the Players or the Scheme, but nothing seems to be clicking for this team right now.

There were times, not many, where a player tried to dribble and score too hard. Hero ball. But, that happens when you are 1-11 from 3’s. For most of the game, they were playing as a team and had many open shots, and missed. As I pointed out, shoot 7 for 23 from threes and 2 more FT we win. The refs can’t be used in this one as an excuse. By the way, set up on a lefties left side. How many times early on were defenders on #22 right side?
And, when the score goes double digit and looking worse, call time out. (Last 2 minutes of first half). Maybe we would still have won?

I was at this game back in 2000:

This wasn’t a bad Cougar team, but they couldn’t get anything (even layups) to go in. It was just one of those games where nothing goes in, and you can’t buy a basket.

This sounds worse — it’s more than just a one-game anomaly.

After watching and being frustrated with a terrible performance overall I wonder if anything can be done with this team going forward. They are so inconsistent and honestly I feel like they have a low basektball IQ overall as a team. Why has Stewart not had more playing time? Why does Waterman get more than 5 minutes a game? Huge liability there. He plays terrible for several games in a row, costing BYU points on both ends of the court, and then makes a few baskets against Gonzaga and that is enough to get big minutes again? No, he plays terrible defense and takes too many ill advised shots. He was probably a star in HS but has not learned much at the D-1 level. I don’t know if he is being utilized the right way or he just doesn’t understand how to play defense but his basketball IQ doesn’t seem to be improving. With as much experience as he has playing in different places I would have expected more. I keep hoping he can turn it around but it is late in the season now and the clock is ticking. Also, Johnson as the veteran, experienced player should be better than he has been. He was awful against SC, missing multiple easy shots and layups and making some strange passes and plays all night. What happened to Hall? He was a non factor as well. Yes, I understand Fouse is an integral piece to the success of the team but getting the ball inside EVERY time was not super effective. It worked some of the time but…

A lot to pick apart here but I feel like I’m rambling so that’s enough for now.

9 turnovers is pretty good. The offense played well except shooting was strangely off from outside. There we 8 or 10 times of what we called a few years ago hero ball. That led to turnovers and bad shots.
The defense in the 1st half was really bad. Did better in the 2nd half. But, 5-23 from 3’s killed us. 8-23 would be a win. And free throws again are back to bad. We just don’t prepare for games.

Honestly Dave Rose was criticized on this board, relentlessly, for poor recruiting. He signed a lot of top 100 HS players over the years…I could easily document it but won’t bother. My only problem with Rose’s recruits is that a lot of them underperformed. Maybe that was his fault. Pope was supposed to improve recruiting and it hasn’t happened from my perspective.

Pope signed Lohner and he left and it looks like he was overrated anyway. He has signed Chandler, who may be better than anybody Rose ever signed, except mayber Fredette. All his other good recruits have been transfer portal guys, most of whom stay one year and are done. Barcello was the exception. I wouldn’t be surprised if Robinson and Waterman both leave, They seem shaky considering both were suspended for a game. Williams eligibility is done so Pope got three portal guys this year with a lot of upside and maybe only gets one year out of them. Waterman has skills that a lot of 6’11" guys don’t have but he hasn’t produced. Robinson was a highly recruited star out of HS, and is better than Waterman but has been a mixed bag. So what happens now? Another year of big roster turnover? I don’t think it is a good way to build a winning program. It looks like the WCC teams that have improved a lot have rosters that have stayed together.

Pope’s one real good year was done with Rose recruits. He brought in Toolson from UVU and brought in Barcello, but his 2 best players, Haws and Childs were Rose recruits who were top 100 HS recruits. Role players like Nixon, Harding, and Seljaas wer Rose recruits.

Right now the team doesn’t have a star that can produce in crunch time. It is a rudderless team with a lot of good role players, but no star. This roster with a real star could be real good. Lots of great college teams had one big star with a bunch of good role players. Fouss is good, but lets face it, he is a 6’6" post player and you don’t build a team around guys like that. Johnson is an outstanding role player, but he will never be a star. All the rest of this years contributers could be classed the same way. Hall has potential to be a star if he sticks around all 4 years. If Pope can land a blue chip HS player who is a star and keep the rest of the roster together he might have a good team. Right now this business of signing good, but not outstanding portal players, and no real HS blue chippers is a recipe for disaster going forward. The Big 12 will chew up BYU and spit them out. What I am seeing is that BYU has had one really good team under Pope, his first one, and has gotten progressively worse since then. Every year has been a step down from the previous one. I am not saying Pope has been a failure, but I don’t like the trend. The next few years should tell the tale as to whether Pope is the coach we thought he would be. I hope he is and BYU shouldn’t be too quick to cut him loose. I think he needs at least two more years, but like I said, I don’t like the trend I am seeing.

Charles Barkley was 6’5” and teams were build around him. Fousse needs to develop a mid range shot and he would be unstoppable like Barkley.

Waterman is a senior. He’s gone. Robinson has played at at least 3 schools now. He’s staying. I hope Stewart stays and plays more now instead of Waterman.

We need some more big men. Atiki has to make a huge jump by next year.

There’s a disconnect between shooting in practice and in the game. A solution is needed.

I thought Waterman had two years he could play at BYU.

Barkley was a superstar but he was never an inside defensive stopper like Fouss is trying be. He was a power forward/small forward hybrid. He was never used as an inside defensive stopper. Fouss is trying to be a center on defense and I don’t think you can build a team around him as a center. He is a really good player but not yet a star. If BYU can find a guy 6’10” or taller who can play 25 minutes, has some inside presence both offensively and defensively then maybe Fouss will become a star when he isn’t playing out of position.

Fredette was actually a 3-star recruit. The Lone Peak 3 (Mika , Haws, and Emery) were ranked higher. That’s not to say anything about Rose’s recruiting ability because I too think he was a great recruiter. He just seems like he forgot how to coach defense during his post-Jimmer years.

Let’s not forget that the final KenPom ranking for each of Dave Rose’s last four teams were 52, 80, 73, and 86. The final KenPom ranking for each of Mark Pope’s first four teams are 13, 20, 58, and 83 (as of today). A few conclusions based on those rankings: First, Pope inherited a senior-laden first team and did more with it than a Rose-led team probably would have. Second, Pope has used the transfer portal to get experienced recruits. The transfer portal has been a mixed bag. He really failed this year. I like the personality of the transfers but the on the court play needs better coaching or better implementation. Third, the future actually looks somewhat bright with Pope recruits Hall, Saunders, Toolson, Chandler, and Wahlin forming the nucleus of what could be some great teams in two or three years. Fourth, BYU really needs to sign some solid big men. Traore is good, Atiki may be good, George is too inconsistent but he’ll be gone after this year, Waterman oftens disappears.