Scheduling FCS teams is Counterproductive for any/all reasons

We keep scheduling FCS teams because we either can not read, or because we can not hear that which is being told to the college football world, or maybe we think that because we are BYU it just doesn’t apply to us.

It is my opinion, that until we start reading, start listening, and start realizing that the SOS message does apply to BYU equally with all other division 1 teams, that we do not deserve more than that which is handed to us.

I keep pleading for no more FCS teams, but still each season, we get an Idaho, Idaho State, Savanna State Weber State, or now a Wagner which keeps us from our goal of advancing to the next level.

Oh hum, it always somebodies else’s fault. This time we had to take Wagner to get Missouri. My answer is always the same. Just Say No to FCS teams. My message each season, falls on deaf ears. NO body seems to care what the fans want anymore.

With all due respect, I wouldn’t say your talking for all fans. Yes, I’d like them to have a little more than a doormat on the midseason schedule, but I’m also ok with it. Our SOS is fine, with our torrid September. We just need to take care of the rest of the season. Unfortunately, the two losses in September (and UCLA’s decline in past weeks) are going to hurt us far more than the FCS opponent we just scrimmaged.

Lets look at the current top ten and some of the “top notch” teams they have played / scheduled:
OHIO STATE - Hawaii and Western Michigan
BAYLOR - Lamar and Rice
CLEMSON - Wolford and Appalachian State
LSU - McNeese State, Eastern Michigan and Western Kentucky
TCU - Stephen F. Austin
MICHIGAN STATE - Western Michigan and Central Michigan
ALABAMA - Middle Tennessee, Charleston Southern, Univ. La. Monroe
STANFORD - University Central Florida
NORTRE DAME - Massachusetts
IOWA - Illinois State and North Texas

Man, how tragic their SOS is ruined, just awful.


To quote a previous thread, “Well said Roy.”

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With all due respect, Nobody, ever speaks for all people in politics, religion, work, play or leisure time. That is a given. I would guess that approximately 45-55 % of the population will agree or disagree with every issue.

You say that you are okay with our SOS at week 9. I am not okay with our SOS at Week 9.
FCS Wagner is ranked below 255. Conn is ranked at 107; Fresno State at 90; San Jose State is at 89. East Carolina is at 64 Nebraska is 60; Missouri is 57; Cinn 49; Boise State 44;Utah State 43 UCLA 31 AND MICHIGAN 14. Our average SOS is 72.

With 128 teams, while it is not always the case, Ideally speaking, the top 64 should be considered P5 quality teams while the bottom 64 should be considered G5 mid major teams.

Our average of 72, is not event near the top of a mid major conference G5 team. It is well within the G5 range. It is no where near the P5 range that ever fan that I personally know, wants us to be, and at least considered to be an independent P5 team for programing purposes.

So No, I am not okay with our week 9 average 72 SOS.

I respectfully disagree that the loss to (# Now 14) Michigan, and the one point loss to (#10 then)
UCLA did more harm than having below #255 and winless 0-7 Wagner on our schedule. The polls also disagree with you. Do the math. (#255 below) Sorry;

I do appreciate the respectful way in which you disagreed. Thank you.

I see your point. I hope that you can see my and each of us can respectfully disagree.
Ohio State did play #110 Hawaii and ##76 Western Michigan. Average 93> Neither team is a
FCS team. Along with those two teams, they played 10 other P5 teams.

In comparison, BYU played below # 255 FCS Wagner, #107 Conn; #90 Fresno State; #89 Fresno State for an average of 135.5 The rest of their games were played vs 3 more G5 teams and only 4 P5 teams.

Your other examples of Baylor playing FCS Lamar is what kept them out of the P4 PLAY OFF LAST SEASON IN 2014.

not a reply, but a continuation.

The only other non P5 team they played was #97 G5 Rice which is ranked well above our 107 UCON. The rest of their games are all P5 teams while we have only 4 P5 teams.

Clemson is probably the worse of those that you state above, but again the other 10 teams are
P5 teams vs our 4 P5 teams.

You mention Stanflord, with their only weak team being FCU. If you remember, we struggled vs Central Florida when we played them. The rest of their games are vs P5 teams.

You mention ND playing the lowest SOS for them vs. #98 Massachusetts which is far better than our below 255 ?FCS Wagner, and our #107 Conn and is in the same decade of numbers as our Fresno State and San Jose State. and after that one team almost as low, but not quite as low as our lowest ( 256-107) They play a whole slate of P5 teams compared to our 4 P5 teams.

Same can be said about your other examples above.

My intent is to point out that if we want the respect of a being P5 type independent team, we must not schedule any FCS teams. The press isn’t buying into it. The polls are not buying into it.
A significant number of fans are not buying into it.

If we want to talk the talk, we must be willing to walk the walk. If we are not willing to walk the walk, we should stop talking the talk about deserving to be in a P5 conference,.

The reason Wagner was on the schedule has been covered ad nauseam. Wagner was added so we could get Missouri. UNLV was replaced by Missouri. We dropped Idaho St. so UNLV would have somebody to play in place of us since we were asking them to let us out of the game at the 11th so we could play Missouri. Fortunately Idaho St. had an open date and could play UNLV in place of us. We couldn’t get anybody but Wagner for our 12th game. The schedule has four P5 teams, Boise a good team, USU a good team, Cincinnati, and East Carolina (both decent teams. Frankly the AD put together one of BYU’s best schedules ever. It is better than any schedule they ever had in the WAC or Mountain. Our schedule is comparable to that of a lot of power 5 teams.

Holmoe did a great job this year delivering one of the best schedule’s ever. He is to be commended. The constant harping on playing an FCS every year is getting tedious. As others have stated we aren’t the only ones who schedule FCS teams on occasion. The last two years there hasn’t been any other choice.


Ron, why don’t you get on the horn with Tom Holmoe, explain your theory in full and volunteer yourself to personally rework the schedule so that by 2017 BYU is playing 12 top 45 teams (ratings of that year) and of those teams 10 are P5 teams. with 7 of those P5 teams ranked (for that year) in the top 15. I think you should be able to do that within 2 weeks, 3 at the most. If scheduling top teams is so easy, I think Tom needs to have the knowledge and be shown the results. Perhaps 2017 is too soon, how about 2019 or 2021. And Ron, absolutely no FCS teams on your schedule. Can YOU walk the talk?


Well, several of the elite teams also play the same lower level teams. So, not sure what your rant is all about if BYU does the same as the big boys do?

A simple fix would be for the NCAA to say that FCS wins don’t count towards bowl eligibility. Overnight we would see FBS teams stop adding them to the schedule.

On another note, IMO 7 wins against FBS opponents should be required for bowl eligibility.

Go back to the beginning of the year… The SOS for BYU was in the top 10… in fact several sports experts said BYU had one of the toughest schedules in the country and that is WITH Wagner scheduled.

Now we all know that SOS is flakey at best, because SOS is based on how they play the previous games… So at the beginning of the season, the SOS could be top 10 and by the end it could end up not being in the top 25. Who knew in the PAC12 Oregon and USC would suck this year? the PAC 12 teams as a whole is winning only about 60 percent of their games… That was not the case last year…

No one could have image Missouri being a 4-4 at the beginning of the season. Both Cincinnati and East Carolina had banner years last year, not so much this year… In the immortal words Forrest Gump “Crap happens”

Now for the important issue at hand… Being Independent has it’s perks and disadvantages, One perk is that we can play anyone we want, the counter to that is that in Oct and Nov, good teams are not available because they do not want to play non conference game during their conference games. With San Jose game, they were willing to play us anytime to help create the schedule when we were first starting out as an independent.

Go look at the future schedule:
They do not have many “cupcakes” on the schedule…
Wagner was a fill in because of the shifting around they had to do to accommodate the game with Missouri. NO D-1 level team was available for THAT DATE…

Here is something you fail to understand Ronald… The wear and tear on the players… We do not have the depth of players that Ohio State and other schools have, and because of that, we have to schedule our “cupcakes” as some as put it, in order for us to not kill them.

It does not help that we keep losing players for a variety of reasons that could have helped…

With next year’s schedule let’s invite Wagner again. We could easily be 0-8 by the first bye. Although, we will be much better of a team too! Especially if Willams comes back strong. Our D will be better too. Should be a fun year!

Notre Dame has cupcakes every year too. Relax! It was a good game to have to get others some playing time and experience.

Ron it was announce a few mintes ago - BYU just schedule FCS SUU on Nov 15, 2016 @ LES.
2016 Schedule is really brutal and yes Mid November we are facing FCS team again. What can you do about it? We play 8 straight games (no bye), 6 P5 and Boise State and Toledo. Then we have a Bye on 10/29/2015 and the next 4 lighter schedule (or brutal depending how beat up our players going to be). Yes, early season are mostly cupcakes for P5 and then after September back in business and we are the other way around, what can you do about it? Maybe we should of say no to SUU and have two byes back to back and just play 11 games for 2016?
I don’t know what to say.

And oh yeah Ron, Utah also play SUU too on Sept 1, 2016. So how weird is that? On Deserret News Comment section, 6 utards made silly comments about our schedule made me laugh!

2016 is brutal-I’m trying to figure out how we can become bowl eligible with a better team than we have this year. I’ll take SUU-just because of the toughest schedule in BYU’s history! Just on the contrary side Nobody thinks twice about Alabama playing a FSC opponent-but they are full or scorn when BYU plays a Wagner. That’s because Alabama is Alabama and BYU is BYU. Wagner is history and we have better things to occupy our minds-I hope:)

Fear is based on lack of knowledge and these fans simply don’t know Alabama and other power teams play FSC opponents too.

They certainly know that these teams play FSC opponents -they just never question the legitimacy of those programs like they do the schools trying to get in.

Who’s decided we are not in? Nebraska? UCLA? Texas? Who?