The state for BYU basketball, are we better then 2018?

Are we as good as last year? Ahhhhh-No.
Missing Dastrup in the middle, Nixon is a bust as a starter, can’t pass, Dastrup was a very good passer.

For the record, I am on the record as of today that i could outcoach Rose ingame. Not saying by any means that could be a better coach then Rose, just that I could out coach him during live games. The first thing I would do is NOT wear out my horses (Childs, TJ) and make them useless for the tough end of game run.

I would have a set rotation, excluding fouls or injuries, where starters get timely rests and 2nds know that they have to run the show and are counted on to play and shoot the ball without hesitation.

I would bring up the new talent (Harding and Baxter) so they are ready to give you quality minutes and be a real value in late season, post season tournys when every thing is on the line. AND so they don’t quit and transfer to another school (Dastrup, Chatman etc…

So back to the state of BYU Basketball. Rose should have never been offered an extention. He has regressed from his MWC years, and not just a little. Other coaches I talk to say he looks tired.

We have two guys that will determine our wins and losses, Childs and Haws. If they are both on fire, BYU wins, if either stumble, BYU loses.

Seljaas is a not dependable as a 3 point specialist and that is his one talent. He as well as Nixon are 50/50 passers; Meaning, they turnover the ball half the time they pass it.

Nixon is no starter but a great 6 man. Worhtington is no starter so at this point I would bring in Lee at center.

TJ has a bad night and we lose, plain and simple. He also has no meat on his bones so when we play physical times, he is a no show. Everyone in the world knows how to play the kid, just rough him up.

Hardnett for some reason does not get aggresive until he sees that no one else is getting baskets. Wish he would stay aggresive no matter how the team is playing.

At this point, Yo is playing for $$ next year. He is going to take plenty of outside shots to prove he can make em. Kills our chances of winning but BYU is that bad and he has to woryy about his future.

Back to Seljaas…Harding should be the starter and Seljaas come in to spell him. Harding is a better outside shooter, A better rebounder, A better driver to the rim and a better defender. I would develop the kid but thats just me.

BYU COULD be a really good team but Rose is the coach. He will get Emery back (and I hate it) and Emery will make shots and be the difference in several wins/loses, all will be forgiven and life goes on.

BYU is a lock at 3rd or 4th in the WCC and iffy to go on to the NIT. No way will BYU beat Saint Marys and could be behind San Diego or San Francisco. book it, Danno.

Fish, I agree with you wholeheartedly on your observations. I said many of the same things in another thread. You would be a better in game coach than Rose is. BYU won’t be a better team with Emery though. We will fail to develop any bench with him on the court. We are a 4th place WCC team IMO! Harding and Baxter ought to play as much as they can this year. Rose is just … I hate to say it … a really dumb coach. Would you rather have Toolson or Troy? Would you rather have Chapman or Seljaas? Beo or Maugham, Worthington or Dastrup? Calvert or the other Toolson of Cannon?

The list goes on and on over the last 10 years. I saw a list in the comment section of the Deserrt News that listed the post players that Rose had recruited since he has been the BYU head coach … just absolutely terrible terrible talent evaluations … except Mika … who probably would have come to BYU no matter what! And even he couldn’t move fast enough to get out of the House built upon the sand by Rose! I am just so tired of Rose and his poor poor decisions … and it drives me nuts to watch the Rose sit on the bench and just stare blankly out into space while his teams get trampled on!

You know when we beat Gonzaga @ Gonzaga? I went to the practice before that game with Coach Hecker. We were asked to comment on the practice by Quincey Lewis. I had been bugging Hecker to talk to Rose about running a high Pick and Roll for Mica, so Hecker talks about it in detail and guess what we feed Gonzaga a diet of???

So Two of us agree that Rose is a poor developer of talent and that he sucks in game at adjusting. I do think that BYU will do better with Emery because he will take the ball to the hoop and he will take a shot without thinking about it and that is the difference between the ball going in or in Seljaas’s case, a brick. Seljaas game is mental. I marveled at his stroke as a fr… He was unconscious and fearless. He has been given every opportunity and is just not ready for prime time. Harding is only going to get better…Play the kid.

Get rid of Nixon as a starter, that will never to change and try Lee, I like what I see. and just get Baxter in with starters often so that he is ready at the end of the year.

The team is devolving right before our eyes, just like they do every season. I remember grasshopper being so exicted because Rose was playing the younger players and giving them experience that would prove valuable down the road.

I was skeptical (naturally so and based on past experience) about what would happen going forward and it seems that things are starting to regress as usual.

Only 2 BYU players in double figures.
Childs, Hardnett, Haws playing 30+ minutes.
Young players minutes are being reduced, no development opportunities.
No attention to defense, giving up 100+ points.
Lacking mental toughness.

Opponents balanced scoring, players playing fewer minutes and just better teamwork in general, playing both ends of the court, confident and showing mental toughness.

I don’t understand why Rose was signed to an extension as the season was starting. Why isn’t that earned based on what you did during the season?

Our athletic program, with regard to major sports, is dysfunctional.

Right on JH. Our AD extends the retireable basketball HC and our 6 and 6 football team gets to play outdoors in Idaho in December. Utah, a p-5, gets to go to San Diego. The Holiday Bowl used to be the WAC’s bowl game before the NCAA allowed football to be a three level sport with FCS, Division I (G-5) and Division I (p-5). It’s not college football anymore, it’s the minor leagues for the NFL prospects. Look how many professional athletes are not playing in their college bowl game, some even sophomores…

That’s been going on for some time now. And, where else has the NFL got their players from besides College?

Haha… criticize texcougs post about football because there is nothing to say about the basketball team. You know I am right but it always takes you awhile to see and acknowledge it.

You didn’t understand texcougs post about how the college football game has devolved into the have’s and have nots. The ncaa has allowed this to happen and the whole system is corrupt, just like every other big business in this country. Is everyone excited to watch Alabama, Clemson, Notre Dame and Ohio State play for the “national championship” again? I’m not, it’s rigged and scripted to bring in as much money as possible, plain and simple. The bowl games are all about money, the sport is all about money, it’s corrupt and shameful.

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Anti-capitalist sentiments. Everything is corrupted by money so we have to re-distriute everything equally so that we have equal outcomes instead of equal opportunities. Don’t try too hard to be better because you might become corrupt :-/~

Nobody said anything about redistributing. Read the post again. Don’t interpret or portray something the way you want to so you can make your own point and feel good about it.

It’s a big problem, that is all I am saying.

I have personal experiences galore that I could share but I won’t because you would mischaracterize them.

I’m not mischaracterizing anything. I simply don’t take information and extrapolate it into something way out there like you sometimes do. I need the proof. The thing with Emery shows corruption happens at the lower levels of competition and lower money levels. It’s a part of life to have opposites. But, the level you place it at is just more than I see it as.

Without Yoeli, I think this team would struggle to win 10 games–even playing in conference that, absent Gonzaga, is about on par with the Ivy League. I haven’t even watched the last couple games. I love BYU athletics but I don’t need it enough to watch a bad product. Seeing Sitake and Tuiaki and Grimes completely lose their nerve–or maybe I should say, “the moment was too big for them”–or maybe I can just say they choked–against Utah was discouraging. Our players were good enough to win that game but our coaches are completely overmatched (and it happened a lot the last two years). BUT this is the basketball thread, so I’ll add that if you coach BYU and give up 113 to Weber State, you are also overmatched, underprepared, or both. And underprepared includes which guys you recruit and which guys you force out of the program. Or allowing guys who are lousy 3 pt shooters to bomb away with reckless abandon. Rose bet the farm on TJ and Emery and both have been complete disasters. That is on Rose just as much as our meltdown vs Utah is on Sitake. Chris you and I predicted two years ago that if TJ didn’t change his body, he would fail. Watching him be completely dominated–at both ends-- so regularly is discouraging.

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Hawks: You are right on, brother. Add this: 14 assists on 41 makes; 14 assists on 103 points. Pathetic. Not one guy with more than 1 offensive rebound. Pathetic. Trying to watch this team play: Pathetic.

It is reported that fans are calling for Holmoes head along with Rose. Reported on the D news and the Trib. Not just us

But, what we have seen in all the preceding games is a lot of assists. What happened in the second half? Did Weber just get hot or did we go back to hero ball and therefore were not in position for getting back on defense? It, did Weber’s defense deny passing? Regardless, we shot a very high percentage for the game. 3 point shooting was 35%. What was low was free throw shooting and they shot a lot more free throws.

BYU coaching in Football and Basketball is subpar. Dave Rose needs to step aside. For years we have experienced relatively no defense. Basics like screening out, controlling the ball and helping are not part of what we do well. Dave has lost the fire and I really wonder what goes on in practice. This year people have switched to zones and our reaction is clueless. Last year’s debacle against UVU and this year’s sham vs Weber State should be grounds for good local kids to go elsewhere. Sorry Dave! Sometimes a coach needs to realize when the jig is up!!

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Since when, according to you, did BYU ever play “hero ball”? That was what I used to claim all the time and you would disagree with me every time. You always claimed they were playing as a team and it wasn’t hero ball.

Changing your tune?

This team is doing exactly what every Rose coached team does… he pretends that everyone has a shot for playing time, he pretends to be interested in players that don’t have experience and pretends that he will develop their talent. But when they show potential and talent, he goes back to playing his favorites and hopes the next Jimmer is ready to go. It’s called hero ball and it can be counted on to get enough wins, against sub par teams, in order to keep the job and placate those in charge.

The result is always the same because the formula is always the same. One difference is that the recruiting circle has been shrinking or getting lazy and now it is happening with Udaho players. There is a reason BYU has signed two foreign guys… it is just PR to make fans believe change is taking place…

Nothing has changed in the last 7 years, post Jimmer.

Oh, I was the originator of the idea but you took it to a much higher conspiracy level. It was in your mind that every shot from LP3 was a hero ball shot and I simply disagreed :slight_smile:

I guess in the final determination, it will be the fans who determine the fate of BYU football and basketball. Attendance and well-off alums determines how much cash flows into the sports system at BYU. YOU CAN TELL BY THE POSTS that BYU fans are getting apathetic and the other programs suffer because football and basketball pay the Bill’s for every other sport at BYU. The extension for Rose was just plain dumb. The church doesn’t like to throw money down the toilet so I can’t see them dumping Rose and having to pay him another 3 years. Sitake is a different matter. He has barely scrimped by this year and made it to one of the worst bowl games in the country. I’m guessing this ploy was to try and fill Bronco stadium with members of the church. That will probably depend on a break in the weather. If Sitake has a losing year next year, I’m guessing he is toast. If I were Sitake I would work hard at recruiting great receivers and running backs, because with ZW at he helm a prolific offense will fill the seats again. The future looks better for BYU football than basketball. With Rose at the helm and a very thin frontcourt, because Childs will probably bail, I see a lot of problems for BYU for the next 3 years. BYU will probably never get a high profile basketball coach, so they need to look for a younger, energetic coach-say like a Mark Pope who has the ability to coach nationwide and even overseas. Once again the extension was a dumb move, just assuring the mediocrity of BYU basketball for 3 years. Imo Lewis is probably a more effective coach than Rose atm

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  1. Get rid of Rose and sign Pope. We can do better. Much better. We are losing to SOME OF THE WORST TEAMS IN D1. EVERY YEAR.
  2. Get rid of Sitake and Tuiaki and Grimes because they simply couldn’t handle the moment against Utah. I still can’t believe what my eyes tell me they saw. To see a BYU staff cower in fear like that was just terrible.
  3. I don’t think you can do 1 and 2 without getting rid of Holmoe and just starting over. Talk about a formerly high profile football/basketball school that has become completely irrelevant.

Nice win tonight. Started out quick and never looked back. Emery played well and gave the team a spark and solid minutes without any sign of hero ball. Childs 31 points and nice game from Haws. Others came in and played well too. I would start Emery Saturday.