I’ve been vocal about him retiring but then he hired Schroyer and I am elated but…he still does not develop his bench. That is a problem for me.
Think about where BYU would be if we could win a NCAA game here and there as in back in the MWC days.
If you stay in the WCC, you have to learn how to beat Bennett’s One guy dominated teams, It was Delli, then Waldo (we did real good on those teams because Bennett had to play Waldo too long and he was out of shape)…now it’s Landale. Gonzaga showed us the blue print on Landale, now we will see if Rose uses it.
We don’t have to beat Gonzaga all the time and you notice that in the years when SMC is not so good, BYU does beat Gonzaga…Hmmmmm, WCC cooking from the stand point of getting in 2 teams into the dance?
Oh, I agree. But the solution to that seems to be somebody walking down to his office and having an open conversation about what it would take to win a game in the NCAA. In other words, that’s a tweak in practices, not a need for a wholesale change.
This league is solvable and BYU has what it takes to do it. We don’t need a transcendent player honestly. In fact, I think in the modern college game, getting a top player like that is only helpful to an already established mid major team or a team like kentucky which can get 4 of them every year. In other words, we’ll lose guys like Mika and above because they’ll take off for the NBA. Jimmer stayed because his game wouldn’t translate as well.
So who should BYU target? Long athletic 3 and D workhorses. Guys like bergerson and honestly, I thought Eli would be that as well. Yo is more talented than I thought. You can’t teach that. You can teach them to move without the ball and pass. And I suppose you can teach them to shoot threes as well. But defensive mentality is hard to teach, technique is teachable, but the tenacity is hard.
Rose, for now, is 2nd best coach in BYU history. Stan Watts is still number one but that’s not a knock on Rose. Stan Watts won two NIT tournaments, one when it was at least as prestigious as the NCAA in 1951 and another in 1966 when it was still very prestigious when only 24 teams made the NCAA. Watts used to play a very tough non-conference schedule because it prepared his teams for conference play. In his day you either had to win your conference or be a very good independent to go to the NCAA. There were no NCAA at large bids for teams that didn’t win their conference. If you finished 2nd in your conference you didn’t go. If you won your conference you were in and it didn’t matter about your non-conference record because the only at large teams were top tier independents of which there were many in the day but only a few spots in the tournament for a bunch of them to compete for. If you finished 2nd you had to have a good over all record to make the NIT and you were competing with a lot of really good independents that didn’t make the NCAA and good teams that didn’t win their conference for only 14 spots in the NIT. Just like today there were a number of teams that won conferences and made the NCAA that were not very good and would not have made the NIT field. To win the NIT you had to win a tournament that was packed with top teams from the eastern seaboard so if you were not an eastern team you had to win what amounted to 3-4 road games. Highly ranked teams from outside the east often got upset by lower rated eastern independents. All the games were played in Madison Square Garden. The NIT was a great tournament in the Watts’ era and the fact that he won it twice is why he is in the College Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach.
Rose’s won loss percentage is quite a bit better than Watts’ but Watts teams always played a much tougher schedule. The old Wac was also a much tougher league than the WCC is today. I can’t rate Rose above Watts yet but if he hangs around a few more years and has another good NCAA run he will take the top spot based on his won loss percentage and the fact that he will probably surpass Stan for most wins in BYU history.
Last night we had a real good scare when Yo went down. So are my worries about the bench real or contrived?
When I watch Worthington out there defending, I see a guy throwing his hands up above his head and bumping guys who are already into their offensive move…comical in show motion but always a foul. Then he hits to big bankers, go figure.
I also can’t believe that Pacific allowed us to run the same play (Eli), twice, to ice the game…and after a timeout. Great guy but fired for a reason.
Anyhow, BYU is challenged from the guard spot, Harhnett and Cannon play hard nosed D but are undersized so bigger guys just shoot or go over them…TJ has a bullseye on him because he is just physically not able to hold ground or reroute a driver. Seljaas can’t hit a wide open 3 so his minutes are fading fast.
Gonzaga is clearly the WCC leader now. Few plays his top players rarely past 30 minutes a game, keeps them fresh and out of foul trouble. Looks like Few has them playing together now and readly for a long Dance run…The bench is well developed now.
SMC is reeling now with a terrible game and loss to SF. Landale got into early foul trouble and Bennett just can’t generate points without the big man. 2nd game in a row that SMC fails without Landale. Bennett plays his big 3 of Landale, Hermonson, and Naar into the 35 minute range.
BYU has had to go to overtime 2 straight games. One to SF (did you know that Coach Kyle Smith is a Bennett protégée) Rose plays Yo, Eli and Haws close to the 35 minute mark. Very concerning is the fact that Yo had to come back into the game after that scary hyper extension of the knee. By the say, I think SF will be a tough game and that BYU can beat Gonzaga at home.
BYU has played SF twice already. Yes, BYU can beat Gonzaga at home and they just might. That is the consolation prize for BYU that they get every year. It is a gift from the wcc to keep them satisfied with third place and believing that they can win the wcc one of these years.
The conference race is so predictable it is almost like it is scripted.
Gonzaga is always the best team. SMC always pretends to be the best and they beat BYU regularly so they are awarded second place every year and BYU is always good enough to beat Gonzaga at least once but that is more of a case of the wcc facilitating a BYU win to keep them hungry because BYU is so bad that they lose to Pepperdine or LMU or Pacific or (insert weak wcc team) every season.
I’m starting to get that feeling like it is time to stop commenting and posting here again. I had this happen a few years ago and it was actually refreshing to be away for awhile. There are too many fans posting here who seem content with the “state of BYU basketball” as it currently presents itself.
Too many fans are okay with the status quo… with the same old thing every year. They are okay with BYU losing to the LMU’s and Pepperdine’s of college basketball… I guess because they beat Gonzaga every once in awhile. Too many fans see this as being inconsistent and yes, that is a good word, but it is unacceptable to be “inconsistent” when you have this much supposed talent.
And yes, it is underdeveloped and underutilized talent. I know good players when I see them.
I’m going to take a break for a couple of reasons, the most troubling of which is I am really disappointed with the way Rose is doing things right now. I think he is capable of way more but stubborn to the point of refusing to change. Hiring Schroyer meant bringing in a friend who understands defense. The overall change in the team, how they play, etc. is negligible. The other reason is that nobody seems to understand or care what is going on.
So, good luck going forward Cougars. I am always hoping for more than mediocrity but probably need to accept it and do something else with my time.
I understand the way you are seeing things and I’m considering doing the same thing and vacating at least until football. The big problem is, imo, there aren’t a great amount of talent evaluation experts out there and instead of being unbiased, they let their emotions get in the way and with that they dream up all kinds of excuses as the season progresses as to why BYU continues to underachieve , while ignoring the real problems. Dastrup should have been getting baptism under fire since the first game, so that by now he would be a productive force in the lineup, whereas now it’s too late for this year and maybe he won’t even develop at all. Instead Seljaas was inserted in the starting lineup, when he had a much smaller upside, specifically defensively. We all see how that turned out. That was a coaching error-one of many in recent years by Rose. BYU has two legitimate , consistent, tournament worthy players in Bryant and Childs and a good potential in Haws, if he gets more consistent. Nixon hasn’t had enough on court time yet and Hardnett and Cannon can be exposed for their lack of height. Imo Bergesen had more upside than others that were getting minutes, but now we will never know. Now certain people are retracting their blue goggles and saying “we are young” wait till next year or other inept statements. The onus lies on the coaching staff to get as much out of their players as they have talent. That has been their responsibility since day one. In this, how can anyone argue that they have successfully done that job. Consider this year’s team with Chatman and FB4 or others that became disenchanted with how the coaches were fitting them into their plans for the future. Rose has done a good job for BYU, but nobody coaches forever and I have seen a definite slide in BYU since the WCC. I still like watching BYU, but the last 4 or 5 years has been difficult and Rose has to assume a good part of the responsibility. Anyway, you have made legitimate observations along with several others, and I appreciate well-thought analysis whether I agree with it or not. Take care
I thought they made quite a few mistakes as well. I was surprised they gave us a chance.
I can’t figure out why they can’t produce at a higher or more consistent level. I understand their defensive limitations. Seljass is just bizarre.
Preach.
I don’t know about too many. A few sure, but to me it looks like the commentary is directed towards specific criticisms of what to change. I find that soothing. Not many people are just shrugging their shoulders. The natives are restless…
Yup. I think BYU needs 5 players to score consistently instead of doing hero ball. We just don’t have enough of those players or recruit them.
Dastrup could be a 10 ppg guy Haws should be around 13, Eli 15, yo 15 and I’m convinced Hardnett needs to be going to the basket or pulling up for a ten footer. I think he could be 10 ppg guy and very efficient. But we default back to hero ball and the system that we could be running gears down. Around 60 points from the starters. I would expect around 15 to 20 from the bench. This would open things and make getting to the basket easier. But we didn’t put in the time early and now we will pay for it.
Confusion abounds when BYU backers say Rose is the second best coach in BYU Bball history. That is garbage! He is the second most winning coach, but not the second best coach! He needs to move on or be let go. The times have passed him by and to make matters worse… he is a very poor talent evaluator!! He is simply not a very smart coach
I am an older guy and I remember the sames things said about Stan Watts. I generally ignore fans who call for firing Rose. It won’t happen, nor should it happen at this point.If everybody on this team comes back next year and you add Lee, Baxter, Emery, and Andrus to the roster then I might jump on the bandwagon if next year is another one like this one.
Ok, if all those guys are on the roster and we finish 3 or 4th in WCC then I will hold you to it! If St Mary’s beats us next year … with almost full roster turnover, I want to hear the excuses coming from the Rose supporters.
No excuses because the roster will be loaded with guys who were considered top recruits. The issue will be if any bolt to play in Europe, if some transfer because they want to be a starter someplace else, or if a few quit basketball for whatever reason. Troy won’t be retained if all of this years team returns and Andrus, Lee, Baxter, Shaw & Emery all are added to the roster. There would be a roster of 15 without Troy and that is too many to manage and keep everybody happy. I don’t know what the status of the NCAA investigation on Emery is and maybe he won’t be able to play. Maybe a guy like Shaw leaves because he wouldn’t be playing much anyway. Maybe Dastrup leaves because he has star potential and can start at a lot of places. We have no idea what Lee and Baxter will bring to the table. Maybe all they will be are guys like Worthington who are just front court depth who can give a lot of fouls. Andrus played some as a freshman and showed potential but maybe he’s just another guy like Isaac Nielson who can transfer to UVU and have the game of his life against BYU and then never do anything of note again.
Rose won’t be fired this year. Be patient you might get your wish if next year doesn’t meet your expectations. Maybe he leaves or gets fired. A lot of people wanted Mendenhall out and look where football is right now. Better be careful what you hope for.
I actually agree with you here. Rose is being dealt a nice hand next year. If he misplays it, then I’ll be more willing to listen to your argument. Assuming we can find a better coach.