This is another reason why BYU never performs up to their potential. The players never look like they are having a lot of fun. Rose is too serious and uptight. It contributes to their headcase status. It is rare that you watch his teams get into a rhythm and flow where everything is working. Well coached teams do this at least occasionally. It is a big part of why they are so inconsistent. Rose rarely, if ever, smiles or looks like he is enjoying what he is doing out there.
Rose is a good guy, but at 60 he is over the hill in todayās competition. I am now in my 70ās and have seen my capabilities going down hill. Give Rose 1 or 2 years to get his seniors, then whether he wins a WCC Chmpship with them or not, 62 0r 63 is a good time to retire.
I expect him to stick around till he passes Stan Watts in total victoriesā¦
Will he have a late career surge the way Stan Watts did when Cosic came in?
It would be niceā¦but would be uncommonā¦though I guess his coach at Houston had the the early career heights and then Phi Slamma at the endā¦
Peyton D played in the last 6 min of the game. Simply put he is a Rose poster child for lack of playing time and lack of developement/confidence. There is 1-3 players every year who are just like Dastrup. I do think that this years team is better than last years team. Unfortunately, the talent level was better last year but the coaching was worse and the chemistry was way worse. We will probably not win by much in the first round of the WCC tourney. But we wonāt get beat by more than 30 by STMarys like last year because we hired a coach who thinks defense is half the game. We let Rose off the hook for everything that goes wrong with this program because we play 30 games a year and he wins 20 of them. I am not giving him a free pass. He is a average coach who has lots of resources that he simply doesnāt use. I hope we donāt get an NIT invite because he will claim it as a victory. As long as Rose is here we will continue to be mediocre. People who strive to be mediocre will like Roses performance and say things like if we had a better option then they would be willing to support a change. I think differently! I watched, in person from 3 rows behind the scorers table last night and Few continued to coach his players, mostly bench players, for the last 8 min of the game. He has passion and a plan for each player on his roster. His assistant stands up and tells Few when to put players into the game. Rose just yelled a couple of times and basically stared off into space as the game result was obvious! He is not engaged and doesnāt have a plan for player developement for each player on the roster. I could go on and on but I think most of you know what I am talking about. He is not a player development coach. That is a killer these days of mobile recruits who will leave if they donāt feel he cares about them. He is not a strategist coach like Bennet and Rose isnāt a recruiter like both of those coaches. It is no accident that BYU is a 3rd seed in the WCC and very close to a 6th seed ā¦ much closer to a 6th seed than a 1 or 2 seed. You get my point!
Ya, your comment about blacks is really silly. When people use the word ātalentā that is usually translated into āblackā athlete. The NBA is mostly black atheletes. The best college teams are heavily black. Do you think there is a reason for this? I do.
I also think that teams heavily invested with black athletes do better most of the time because they are still more hungry for bettering their lives through sports and work harder in all phases including strength training and practice. Many still donāt think they have many options outside sports and take it more seriously. Except at BYU.
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Yes, those of us who understand the game and know what we see get your point. You are spot on. Thanks for your first person observations. It would be nice if you could be at the practices and tell everyone what you see there. Of course, Chris has and he has reported about pro scouts wondering why Dastrup doesnāt get more time in games. Those are scouts who have actually been to a practice and seen what goes on, who recognize the talent and potential.
It is a mystery for sure but based on the fact that we have been seeing the same thing for about 6 or 7 years now, since Jimmer left, it isnāt that hard to figure out. When Rose comes back for next season, we will simply have to press the replay button and watch season 7 follow the same script as BYU finishes in third place or worse again.
I am guessing it will be 3rd place because, like I mentioned, there is a vested interest on the part of the league to see BYU stay relevant. How many fans were at the Gonzaga game? like 19,000? That is more than some of the teams probably get in an entire season of home gamesā¦
Well said and an insightful post. Thank you!
He has a top ten winning percentage of all active Division 1 coachesā¦how in the world is the remotely average?
Six straight years with less than acceptable conference play is major cause of concernā¦that the drought has gone on so long is a major concernā¦
Top ten winning percentage is nothing close to mediocreā¦
Truly sickeningā¦truly the realityā¦
You are right Harold, it is a curious dichotomy for sure. Take a look at the other top ten active winning percentage coaches and compare their relative āsuccessā outside of just winning percentage. Yes, Rose used to have teams that went to the ncaa tournament and the Jimmer anomaly actually represents the one time the team was successful in the tournament. Lately they are either one and done or NIT attendees.
I would be curious to know how his overall success outside of winning percentage compares to other coaches with similar winning percentages.
I would venture to guess that those other teams and coaches have multiple conference or tournament championships and fare better in the ncaa tourneyā¦ overall. Is there a way of checking that?
If that is the case, then it makes the scenario more troublesome than I imagined.
There is also another tier to why some officials calls gamesā¦ prestigeā¦
If you want to work March madness, you must officiate games in the P5 leagues to get thereā¦
Take away Dave Rice, Nashif, Pope and Heath and Rose is average especially if you throw in the resources afforded him in the BYU umbrella. The lucky Jimmer recruit, even though he didnāt play him as a freshman, along with the legacy recruits that any BYU coach would have gotten and you have a bunch of decent players who came to play at the Y regardless of Rose. I just look at the coaching during games and lack of adjustments at halftime and no concept that when he hits on a good combination that he should go back to that group later in the game! It boggles my mind that he misses on the easy decisions with surprising regularity. We find ways to lose to teams ranked below 250 every year and most years there are multiple losses to those bottom dwellers. He has little to no energy on the bench during games and I think he tunes out and stares into space when.he doesnāt know what to do.
Harold - Please stop with the āTop Ten Winning Percentageā stuff about Coach Rose. His teams have played in very poor conferences (MW and WCC) filled with tomato cans and pin-cushions. Also, our non-conference schedule is weak every year. Sure, good P5 teams are reluctant to play us. But still, beating Weber State and Colorado College of the Midget Miners are no great accomplishments.
To give a true measure of Coach Roseās āwinning percentage,ā one of us should spend a lot of time and tell us his winning percentage against Top 100 D-1 teams. Then compare that % against other active D-1 Coaches based on their records against Top 100 teams. I know Top 100 is an arbitrary figure, but it will remove all the bottom-feeders from the equation. Using that metric, Coach Rose might be a bottom 10-20% coach if you pick 100 coaches to evaluate. Iām not saying itās all his faultā¦I wonāt address all that here. Just stop with the Coach Rose winning % garble.
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I find it interesting that we use the weak conferences theory to diminish Roseās record, but when it came to Bronco and his 10 -10 win seasons against mediocre teams was viewed as blasphemy. hmmā¦ Kind of Ironic anyways.
We need to stop comparing our coaches to the coaches of the glory yearsā¦ BYU as an institution is not the same as it was back in those days.
Not sure if many of those āStarā players would even be allowed to come to BYU now a days.
Something has changed in the administration, not sure what, but something. I was listening to a commentator on Sports talks that says with the āNEWā BYU admission requirements has all but eliminated the Football team signing JUCO players. Not sure if that falls over to basketball as well, but I believe Rose (as well as Kalani) is put into a very difficult spot recruiting players because of the strict standards BYU is enforcing.
Maybe that is why the Ivory league has teams, but you never see them do anything in tournamentsā¦ just not good enough. Food for Thoughtā¦
Floydā¦I agree that something in the administration is off. I wish KC Black was still around to give us an inside scoop.
Big picture, I still wouldnāt be surprised if BYU cancels sports at some point several years into the futureā¦following BYU-I and BYU-H.
a quick check of the refs on BYUās WCC games this year shows that most games had at least one many had two refs with NCAA tournament experienceā¦
Iāll be happy toā¦just as soon as the garbage about him being a horrible coach is dropped toā¦
He has disappointed recently.
But still far from averageā¦the average Div1 coach gets to try his hand at being head coach and fails shortlyā¦
Dave Rose is not near average.
As to very poor conferencesā¦usually 10 or so out of 32 conferences have multiple bidsā¦
MWC has now decended to that level. not when BYU and Rose were beating up on them though.
WCC has and unless something strange happens will again this year have multiple bidsā¦
not the definition of poor conference by most measures.
It would be interesting to see his breakout against top 100 kenpom teamsā¦I do not have time right nowā¦maybe Iāll look it up and countā¦you could do it tooā¦it is much more time consuming than hardā¦as to looking at all the top 100 coachesā¦that is a massive amount of work unless you have the database already togetherā¦
as a small sample.
Dave Rose dominated top coaches in the MWC
many who had before and since gone on to NCAA tournament success.
Dave Rose has the best conference record against Mark Fewā¦Last I checked that included Bennet at SMCā¦
Dave Roseās problem is usually the lower tier teams not the good quality teams.
I have been very troubled over the WCC spiral years that the OoC schedule has been getting softer and softerā¦is that an artifact of the WCC or the fact that BYU has not won the WCCā¦not sureā¦even though the weakness in the OoC schedule is measurable the reasons for it are not so easy to measureā¦LaCombās ability to negotiate schedules may be part of itā¦a different negotiator and and the ability policy wise to accept 2-1 or 3 for 2 away and home series would probably help. it certainly helped Few early on.
Look at who gets to the Sweet 16 and upā¦ Are those officials doing WCC games doing that level of tournament games?
In the beginning of the tournament, there is a need for a lot of officials, as the 64 gets whittle down 16, you will notice the best officials gets those gamesā¦
Just having tournament games is not a good judge of officiating,need to look at the level in which they did to determine how good they are.
One reason, I wished they had put all officials under one roof. Then there is a standard in which to judge how good or bad an official is.
I never said he was a horrible coach. I think heās average. Period. And as the years of disappointment go by, it makes me think itās time for a change.
I acknowledge that the deck is stacked against him due to BYUās Honor Code, Academic Standards, poor Conference affiliation, inability to interest or recruit great inner city athletes, etc.
But then I stop and wonder why we donāt have FB4 and Jordan Chatman playing for us right now. How do Dave Rose apologists explain that? I view that as a coaching blunder by Rose. Coach Rose put all his chips into the middle riding an āLP3 of a Kind.ā Then he realized that was really a cheap set of 2ās from a NCAA relevance perspective.
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I would say he recruits better than Bennet (does someone have recruiting numbers to prove me wrong?) but Bennet is a much better strategist and heās set up his recruiting pipeline and plays the same system as the Aussie national team. That is a genius master stroke. My hat is off to him. Few is a hall of famer and both an excellent all around coach and recruiter. Rose excels at getting a lot out of a few guys, in other words, Hero ball. Heās the perfect coach for Jimmer. He is a pretty good recruiter when he wants somebody, I just think he needs to cast a wider net. Which I believe he is trying to do now. That russian kid is an interesting prospect.
Slow clap
Little post season success in contrast to the consistency in regular season wins needs explanation.
That would surprise me. It would take a massive incident and losing quite a bit to make that happen. Who would I root for then?
He has struggled recently to beat St. Zags more than once a season. But yes, he does drop games to bottom feeders. I maintain itās a mintues balance problem. Guys are tired.
Iām ok with recruiting guys with potential (as in theyāre athletic 6ā6" and great defenders) and then develop whatever the weaknesses are in their games. I can teach someone to pass, I canāt necessarily increase lateral explosiveness.