The state of BYU basketball, 2018

fish · February 27, 2018, 3:30pm

sounds like two people saying the very same thing. When I watch the game, I will watch as a spectator the first time through, then I will look at parts of the game when they make runs or when we make runs and watch how coaches, and players, react.

I will say this, Rose has been a good recruiter over time, But we both agree that he looks tired, worn out. Does not coach up in games or develop his bench.

Few ran at us with the high pic and roll to:1 get Childs out from under the basket. 2 wear him out. Mission accomplished. Few also ran how many guards at Eli? 4 I think. The fist game, Eli got all of 4 points. This game Eli got 16 but had to shoot 17 shots to get there, certainly under 30%. Few rested his guys throughout the game because Few knows that he just has to be close to BYU in the fist 30 minutes because Rose will wear out his starters with too many minutes. Game-set-match.

Rose, as you say, also had a game plan. Hit 3s and win at home. Well, that just did not happen…so what next? Rose, “try some more 3s, I guess”.

Few

fish · February 27, 2018, 3:46pm

I have to side with Larimer when he points out Rose’s record vs. top 100 tier teams. I also have to side with Hawk when he points out recruitment of good players given the BYU umbrella or resources, the Marriott, the new Bball facility, BYU TV, BYU Nation, ESPN.

BYU has UNDER performed through the Rose years given all those resources. Given that we have the honor code, We don’t cheat or buy off athletes etc. NO SEX…I would have to say that Coach Rose has OVER performed because BYU is truly a impossible sell to many athletes.

It is what it is.

fish · February 27, 2018, 3:49pm

Your data is valid so at this point I would almost have to throw out the question…The pre cancer years vs. post cancer years. Rose just looks worn out to me.

Then there is this

fish · February 27, 2018, 4:02pm

Stuff like this just makes me crazy

Rose said Dastrup is one of the best teammates he’s coached in his years at BYU.
“On this team, he’s found spots where he’s really helped us and won games for us,” Rose added. “He’s so team-oriented, and he’s always up for whatever the team needs to win. Those are great guys to have around.”

Reward the guy then. Come on, man!!!

tlarimer · February 27, 2018, 6:32pm

TxCoug1492, I appreciate your energy and posts! I’m just looking over this thread now and see you are in your 70’s? Reaslly? From your posts figured you were a smart, competitive 30something guy!

grasshopper · February 27, 2018, 6:39pm

No “sex?” Many athlete are married at BYU. So, they can’t have sex?

I agree with the fact even LDS athletes don’t want to live up to even Temple standards. But, that’s a challenge for our youth in general. So, Rose has done an excellent job as coach.

tlarimer · February 27, 2018, 6:51pm

A look at our bigs:

Yo: Great finisher near the rim. Great shot blocker. Great defensive rebounder. Undersized and easily frustrated against guys who are bigger than he is, even if they are TERRIBLE (we watched from the 2nd row at Portland last week as Yo was totally frustrated by Portland’s 7 footer who is garbage; Yo melted down during a TV time out and Rose told him to sit down and don’t get up and that’s why he sat the last 12 minutes or whatever, even though the outcome was still in doubt).

Nixon:
I love everything about him. Great offensive rebounder and finishes real strong in traffic, using his body to protect his shot. Except I wish he were 6’9" instead of 6’6".

Worthington:
Hooray, he has developed a serviceable 3 foot hook shot!!! He is strong enough and tries hard. But there is just no upside there. He elevates so slowly that he can’t dunk in traffic, he has zero face up game, and he can’t handle the ball, so he has almost zero offensive upside.

Dastrup:
Big. VERY good shot blocker for a guy without huge hops. VERY good face up shooter. Good midrange game. Coordinated enough to take one dribble from the FT line and elevate to throw down over big men. Can score facing or with his back to the basket. Can make threes, and even when he misses it’s obvious he has a good stroke. Hustles. Teammates love him. Fans love him. Media loves him. More highly recruited out of HS than all our other bigs COMBINED. The ONLY one of our bigs with “big time” scholarship offers. YEP; SOUNDS LIKE WE SHOULD NEVER PLAY HIM…

Just typing this is making me crazy, but in a lost season, it’s simply inconceivable that the guy with the best combination of attitude, size and ball skills never plays.

fish · February 27, 2018, 7:21pm

wow, the rest of the story

I occurs to me that as a Coach, the one cardinal sin, do not alienate your fan base may be coming into play. What if next year rolls around and Dastrup is still in Provo and he does not get significant minutes?

Seems prudent to me that you play the guy. If he stinks it up (Seljaas comes to mind, a 50% shooter who’s shot just plain vanished) then you are off the hook? Right?

Craig_Larimer · February 27, 2018, 9:06pm

Well said, Fish. You always have insightful and excellent comments. Please mentor the Grasshopper on BYU sports.

fish · February 27, 2018, 11:03pm

That’s Jim’s dept… I have a no contact clause in my contract.

grasshopper · February 28, 2018, 2:10am

No mentoring needed. But I’m willing to mentor.

JCoug · February 28, 2018, 2:38am

I told the grasshopper that when he could snatch the pebble from my hand he would be ready to make a meaningful, insightful post. The problem is he keeps telling me it is a rock and refuses to even try.

I have given up… he will always be a grasshopper.

JCoug · February 28, 2018, 2:41am

What a crock… and how hypocritical can a coach be? I’m sorry, this reeks of phony nonsense and just plain disingenuous. I guess Dastrup is a great guy to have around on the bench because that is where he spends 90% of his time during games.

Clausewitz · February 28, 2018, 9:23am

I isolate players and breakdowns. Tiny mistakes cause dunks, even eyes being in the wrong spot. Jordan explaining defensive eyes: This is for you zach.

Rose is hoping to get lucky with threes. St. Mary’s has a different method…

Yup

Yo gets lazy on defense and forgets to box out…occasionally

Preach. Dastrup got the largest player’s applause saturday. Apparently, we are not alone.

At least play Nixon over Zach! Or try Dastrup, Nixon and Yo at the three. Yo is out of position and he’s done fairly well but please put him in a position to abuse a guard! He can guard them on the other end as long as they’re not blazing fast combined with a great 3 point shot. I’d love to see it for 6 minutes. Obviously this is more of a discussion about next season but whatever.

Harold · February 28, 2018, 2:52pm

I agree with this.
Though the pre- post-cancer dichotomy doesn’t work for me simply in the fact that the last two years in the MWC (which were post-cancer) were very good years. Certainly better than the WCC years.

My impression is that the winning gives him energy and the losing takes more out of him now than it used to. Schroyer being around this year might also have an effect on his feeling tired.

This is one of his two worst teams offensively. If you only count the years after the Cleve-Rose transition on players, this is easily his worst team offensively.
I noticed this morning that the team is one of the worst in the nation on offensive rebounds…the emphasis on defence has robbed the offence not just of mojo, confidence, but of one of its primary tools.

While I appreciate the new emphasis on defence, robbing your team of its heart, the Rose offence, adds up to the horrible start to the year transitioning to the new defensive scheme, and the horrible end to the year after teams have figured out the moribund offensive scheme…

I started the year with a derisive I love the NIT.
I am sad that it has morphed into, I would love for this team to even make the NIT…ouch…

dew · February 28, 2018, 8:54pm




fish:

Rose just looks worn out to me.

Harold:
I started the year with a derisive I love the NIT.
I am sad that it has morphed into, I would love for this team to even make the NIT…ouch…
[/quote]

NIT is where we belong for now. We get in ncaa and played really bad in first game would look bad. We win some NIT games would help our players some development AWAY FROM WCC. We lose 1st game in NIT, nobody would noticed and GET TO WORK DURING OFF SEASON. And maybe next season we find an assistant coach for offense play and Dave Rose would just let those guys “Schryoer and new Offense Coach” do the play calling through out the 2018-19 season. Is that what Gonzaga does and Mark Few just stay aside letting his assistant do the work as Fish said? We shall see how we do 1st game with SD but against smc will be UGLY!

Sundance · February 28, 2018, 9:57pm

Don’t think Chris said that-I think he said they constantly work together, and Few definitely is active in coaching

Clausewitz · February 28, 2018, 10:11pm

While I agree the offense is too simplisitic, I do not want to return to the up tempo fast break offense. I don’t think we have enough high level athletes or depth to run that well enough and defend a full season. We’ll score a lot, but it won’t be efficient and it will be extremely streaky, sort of like right now where we shoot a lot of contested threes, but faster.

I think St. Mary’s is the method. I get that up tempo is exciting, but I’d rather they move the ball and get a good shot.

fish · March 1, 2018, 6:19pm

I think Shroyer is doing most of the coaching on BOTH sides of the ball. I visited with Him and Quincey for a half hr after practice. With Quincey we covered about every player on the team. He was very open and did not hide anything. Shroyer, was more about theory.

One thing that stands out…BYU needs more guys to step up. Three have full time green lights. All of the others are hesitant simply because they don’t have that shoot it stamp tattooed on their forehead. The thing that holds Dastrup out…he forgets to play defense.

Worthington gets to be a starter because he is the glue on D…from the mouths of the coaches.

fish · March 1, 2018, 7:04pm

I guess I should report on Practice.

Rose watched while Qwincey worked on O sets, Shroyer worked on D sets. They ran limited scrimmage, Shroyer was in charge and would stop them if they did something wrong. They worked entirely on things that SD runs. Offensively they worked on breaking down SD’s D. I can tell you that our guys DO NOT flow from option to option, they are still thinking and not instinctive. Still young.

Coach Hecker would grab me by the arm and say things like, “they are do’in it wrong” then he would say things like “I would point to the ceiling and get my guy to look up, then -boom- make my move”, rather then do two moves to seal a guy off. I did not grasp half the stuff he was saying. (we’re sitting in the seats, we are the only folks there besides the team and he chewed me out good with I cheered once on a Dastrup 3…we are observers, Bailey, shut up or we’ll get kicked out)

Dastrup, Nixon and Cannon ran with the 2nd team. They would switch off with the 1s in scrimmage. We are NOT doing anything different in the SD game, just working out our mistakes from the loss.

Got to talk to Quincey for 20 minutes, Shroyer 10 mins. and Coach Hecker talked for 20 minutes to Shroyer… then Hecker worked some of the players on footwork and I kept talking to Quincey. Rose was on his phone so I did not get to talk to him. Here is the low down from our Conversation per Qwincey:

Dastrup heads and tails our mose offensively gifted player but spacey on D…Worthington is the glue to D, they figure that Yo has to be out there so Worthington absorbs the fouls to keep Yo out of trouble. Thinks Dastrup and Yo at the same time is a mistake (I am sad all of the sudden)

Saljaas will find his shot, we just have to hope. The mission killed his head.

Haws, they are very happy with his game.

Nixon, love his progress

Hardnett, love his D but needs to work on staying focused off ball.

Bergerson- great future, just clueless.

Eli’s mom was there and we talked for a while in the parking lot. I told her she is famous now after reading about her in the D Herold. She said her Jr, son is a BYU linebacker commit and her 8th grader is better then Eli was at that age, not even close.