The sticking point, according to what I have read

If you have not read the article
I would highly recommend it. The real sticking point, and the reason why Coach Ken decided to stay at Navy was the pool of money available for the assistant coaches. Everyone wants consistency in their coaching staff now-a-day, and payment of assistant coaches is escalating and becoming a problem at many schools, not just BYU. It reared its ugly head on “The Hill” last season and was the main reason Gary Anderson left Wisconsin for OSU.

From what I am seeing today, it could be the reason Kilane Sitake turns down BYU as well. It is probably the reason why so many assistant coaches followed Bronco to UVa. It could be the roadblock in finding a quality replacement for Bronco, and eventually the real downfall of BYU football.

It sounds like you are suggesting that the real sticking point for all of these coaches is… MONEY.

Don’t try to convince Floyd or Scott of that… it is only about the love of teaching kids how to play the game. :smile:

It’s hard for me to imagine that a coordinator at the FBS school makes more money than a head coach at an FCS school.

But, yes I am suggesting that money is an issue, but it is probably not the only issue.

Money is the biggest issue by far. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there are fans here that don’t want to accept that fact. It wouldn’t be if schools weren’t paying coaches sick amounts of money… I mean seriously… is the value of a football coach really 5 million dollars a year? what is it that he is providing?

Perhaps the more this issue is discussed the more enlightened some of these fans will start to understand it better. :wink:

You know Sitaki turned down BYU? When? Nowhere is it publicized he’s turned BYU down.

I didn’t say he did. I read that that is a sticking point. Not that he has said no.

Well, BYU rode a bus to the bowl game instead of flying saving $300,000 so they can add onto the weight room. Perhaps that money could go to some assistant coaches ;-). But, you have to make the athletes happy too.

The love of money is the root to all evil. Not money. Bronco’s coaches would not have left if he didn’t. So, Bronco leaving wasn’t because of the love of money.

It seems that you aren’t happy with living in a capitalist country where the market decides the price of service and products. France might be the right place for you :wink:
BYU can afford to pay these coaches if they wanted to. The ESPN deal put lots of money in their pockets. What is BYU doing with that money that the football team brought in?

Here is an interesting link to college football assistant coach salaries. Private schools do not need to disclose, but it is informative for sake of comparison. I have heard from good sources that BYU coaches earn as much as 50% less than other similarly situated assistants, and that is not including outliers. This is one reason Bronco so often had to get guys with no or limited experience. My guess is that in the 70’s and 80’s, before coaching salaries skyrocketed, BYU assistants made about the same as their peers, but that BYU has made a conscious choice to not participate in the salary escalation. It means we need to cut Bronco and Holmoe and whoever the next guy is some slack because they are playing with one arm tied behind their backs. In my mind this is one of our two most significant limitations (along with academics and HC, which I lump together as one factor) in our bid to become a perennial top 25 program.

The article is interesting but based on speculation. Nobody in any official capacity is talking about the reasons for the rejection, nobody at either Navy or BYU. Coach Nuimatololo hasn’t said anything. I think the writer went way out on a limb speculating that Sitake might be turned off about being the 2nd choice. I can’t see Sitake turning down a chance to be head coach at BYU to stay as an assistant at the worst program in the Pac 12 (at least this season) because he was the number 2 choice behind an established, experienced head coach who is a winner.

I can believe that it is possible coach N turned down BYU because of pay for either him, or his assistants, or both. People have known for years BYU pays below market value for head coaches and assistants. As far as I am concerned if the Church doesn’t want to pay enough for coaches so the program can be competitive on a high level then just drop athletics and let some of the finest athletic facilities in the country become venues for Osmond family reunion concerts.

BYU underpays successful head coaches but they historically stay anyway. At least BYU could open the wallet a little and allow them to hire the staff they need to help the programs reach their fullest potential. It seems there is no issue with building great facilities, and the attendant high cost to build and maintain them, but there is always an issue with the church paying employees market value for services.I don’t think this issue is solely confined to BYU coaches. I think it holds true for anybody working for the church. I don’t really understand it. Being employed by the church in some capacity is not the same as a church calling and I sometimes think those who handle hiring for the church have the attitude that people should work for below market value because it is a privilege to work for the church and that may be true but a person should be paid market value for services working for the church that they would earn in the private sector to do the same work. I am not suggesting the church should pay on the upper end of the pay scale but at least pay the average salary for the position.

I agree with Jim Hawks that many football coaches are grossly overpaid but it seems BYU could find some middle ground if they are really serious about becoming a P5 school. They have P5 facilities and need to pay P5 money for coaches, not anything close to Nick Saban type money but something in the neighborhood of what the U coaches make.

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If it is about money I have lost some respect for BYU if they really wanted Coach Ken N of Navy. I find it hard to believe that BYU couldn’t come up with enough money to pay assistant coaches adequately. If BYU wants to go to P-5 they are going to have to pay coaches whatever it takes. Apparently the BYU BOD doesn’t really want BYU in P-5.

Oh good grief. Tell me this isn’t true. This isn’t a time to save money.

Pardon the heresy, but I look at this like building a temple. Not kidding. There are times in the church when we scrimp and save, made do, go without, etc., the old pioneer way. There are other times when we do the opposite, when we spend all that is necessary to create the highest quality product, money no object. We build temples to be the absolutely closest thing to perfection a human can erect. We also spend goops and gobs of money advancing the interests of missionary work. If the BYU football program really pushes along the objective of the church, don’t get cheap by nickel and dime treatment of the coach or his staff.

I wanted Coach Niu. Actually, I really want Kyle, but assume he’s not available. If we would have had Coach Niu but for lack of money, I’m ticked. We have the money. Tons of it. We have rich crazy nut fans for alums who wd just say “where do I send the check?” That’s how they built the practice facility.

Get us the best qualified coach money can buy. Do it now.

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Jim H: When one considers that football teams bring in the vast majority of money for all athletic programs, for both men and women, wouldn’t it be prudent for a school to be willing and able to pay Head Football coaches something close to their going market value and consider paying their assistant football coaches enough to get them to come to a school under a certain head coach. I personally would find it hard to believe that Navy, an AAC conference school pays its assistants much more than most G-5 schools. If BYU really wants to become a P-5 school it must be willing and able to pay a HC and his football assistant coaches enough to attract them to the school. The market gets higher all the time. I don’t know if the coaches salaries was a determinant why Coach Ken N didn’t accept an offer by BYU, if they did indeed offer him, This whole coaching change is starting to get ugly. IF Sitkae turns down BYU there is something wrong at the way or what BYU offers coaches. I agree with mowgli’s post. I am sure that a large number of the BYU BOD went to Utah for their education.Is the BYU BOD unwilling to offer coaches money near market value or not? Does the GA;s want BYU to be competitive and get to P-5 status, or do they want to scrimp and not be competitive. If the BYU BOD really doesn’t want to compete, then lets be a G-5 and go back to a G-5 conference. If so, I suggest we go to the AAC and see if we can beat Navy on a regular basis.

aro: Outstanding post. I lean towards what you said. Either BYU is willing to put up or shut up or go G-5.

Aro, Mowgli, txcoug1492: You are all spot on.

Bigger picture, I think the BOT is in a real discussion now about whether to continue sports at BYU or not. If we aren’t going to take the steps necessary to get into a P5 Conf (if it’s possible) and if we are going to elevate the Nick Howells to high coaching positions, I’m not sure we are truly committed enough to be anything other than be very average or bad.

if it is about the money Jim, then why did coach ken stay at Navy for 15 years? if he was the money grubbing person you say he is, then he why did he not go elsewhere?

here is where I think you are off the mark… you as an engineer charge outrageous prices for your services in my opinion, but to you it is the balance of your time, experience and expertise( as a company).

that is no different than someone who coaches. do you spend 14-16 hours a day/ 7 days a week doing your job? I doubt it Jim, but coaches do. as a D1 coach in most places require 16 hr. days…

so why should they not get paid for their work?

you say it is outlandish, but have you ever researched the pay compared to a hours worked?

it like here in Utah people bag on teachers pay, but they forget the amount of hours that teachers put in outside of work hours. as the husband of a a teacher I know what they do…

They didn’t ride a bus so they could add on to the weight room. They rode a bus because it is only 5 hours away. Do you ever use rational thought before you type your comments? As far as the reasons for why Bronco left, you don’t know that one of his reasons for leaving was because he got significantly more money. He’s a good guy but the money was absolutely one of the reasons. My happiness has nothing to do with whether I live in a capitalist country. In fact, the happiness level of people in a given country has nothing to do with capitalism or how much money they make. Thankfully, BYU is steadfast in being different and separating themselves from the rest of the CAPITALIST universities in the country. How do you think other universities are able to pay their professors huge salaries? Could it be that they are charging huge fees for getting an education? Please tell me how being in debt for the rest of your life because of the cost for a college education is necessary or even the “market” deciding the price of “services”? It’s a system that is messed up. It’s hard to talk to somebody with a closed mind… but I’m afraid you just don’t get it…

It must take the team 2-3 hours just to get everyone through airport security. It is probably easier to take the bus if it is only 5 hours away.

seriously? because it is five hours away?

even though every year they went there before they flew?

so why the change this year?

5 hours from Provo. That’s petal to the metal all the way.

I make that stinking drive at least once a year and sometimes multiple times, like 3-5. I know how long it takes. It is 250 miles from Provo to St. George so at 75-80 mph it is a little over 3 hours. From St. George to Vegas is another 120 miles. The total distance is somewhere close to 375 miles. If you average 75 mph (and much of the way it is 80 mph speed limit) then 5 hours is easy. Vegas is basically the midway point for my drive to Provo.

Honestly, I can’t understand why they would fly. In fact, I was driving back from there only Tuesday after a funeral… and I saw the football gear TRUCK go whizzing by me doing 75 !!!

There is no reason to fly in a plane when it only takes 5 hours to drive in a vehicle. This post is more a reply to Floyd than to you Roy… :smile: