We can be P5 if we want to be starting now

If we really want to be a P5 team, bad enough to play by the rules, than nobody except ourselves can stop us, even as an Independent. ND did it as an Independent and so can we.

P5 teams now have to play 9 other P5 teams and the other 3 games of the season must be strong SOS teams. BYU, to be a P5 team, must do the same.

SEC is trying to get those other 3 games per season, vs other P5 teams not in their conference or ND. If the other conferences meet that demand, than BYU must do the same.

Post 2014 play off season, proves to us that no FCS teams on the schedule of any P5 team will be tolerated. (TCU/BAYLOR/OHIO ST). BYU must refuse to have any FCS team on their schedule. (Just say No).

BYU must not accept any of the advantages of a Mid Major team. They must only do what P5 teams do.

The world will recognize BYU as a P5 team, and nothing at all like a Mid Major team and nobody except ourselves will be able to stop that fact. Yes, we did it without permission. Yes, we took the initiative. Yes, with our deeds, we made ourselves a P5 team.

We can’t even field a spring ball roster, let alone claim P5 membership.

And BYU is going to force P5 teams to play them in Provo, how? I don’t think BYU football can survive playing only 2 or 3 home games a year, and that is likely what it would take for several years to have an all P5 schedule.

We could have 0 home games and not find enough P5 schools to complete a Oct and Nov schedule. In order to be P5, you have to join a P5 conference. There is no other way if you are not ND.

I had assumed that BYU would have a few home and home arrangements, but I agree with you, pretty much everything else would be an away game only. Once the P5 teams realized that BYU was trying to schedule only P5 teams, they would have all of the negotiating power.

It’s one thing to state individually or as some group that you very, very much want to be P5 status and quite another to demand or dictate it. Unless you are Bill Gates wealthy and are willing to shell out $10 billion (with a B) to bribe one of the P5 conferences to admit the Y, we don’t have much say in the matter. I have complaints a plenty with Tom and Bronco but obsessing about scheduling problems by a Mormon school, in Provo, Utah with our on the field performance over the past 5 years won’t get you anywhere, no matter how much you (or any of us) stomp around.


I would suggest that you read the article again which you complain about. Your first reading missed the whole point of the article.

No demands, as you say, are being made. Only a factual observation is being made. Not once in the article was there any mention of joining a P5 conference. The article was about staying an Independent. Nothing mentioned in the article, suggest any financial expenditures out of the ordinary.

When one wants to be critical, one should know and understand that which he is trying to criticize. Some people are not capable of understanding the simplest of creative ideas.
See if you can understand what is in print during your second reading. If not, try a third time. If you don’t get it after the third reading, give up and go on to something easier to understand.


Would you suggest, that because Hill and our running back are not yet 100%, we should not be open to improving ourselves and our way of doing things in order to eventually become accepted as a P5 Independent team for programing, by all P5 conferences and not just the ACC?

From your other posting, I do not believe this to be true about yourself. Like me, A Realistic Optimist, I believe that you see a brighter future down the road for our Cougars. I believe that we both can find plenty of fault in some of the ways things have gone for our Cougars in the past, but neither of us would want to stand in the way of making significant changes that would bring our Cougars CLOSER to our immediate, short term goal, of being accepted as an Independent P5 team. This is a stepping stone to getting our long term goal of being in a P5 conference. Please read the article again with an open mind and see if you can realize the value in which i very seriously suggest. Thanks Ron.

KC: Then why are PAC 12, BIg 12 and SEC scheduled to play BYU starting in 2015 and 2016?


Do you remember Fresno State during some of their better seasons?

There motto was, “ We will play any team, any time, any place.”
They finally got accepted into the MWC. (after the WAC folded)

On a different level, like the ACC has accepted us as a P5 team for their programing, and like the Pac 12, more and more, seems to be accepting us as a P5 team for programing, the hope should be that the other 3 P5 conferences will also accept us as an Independent team, like ND, that is a P5 team for programing purposes.

While we can’t expect to have the respect of ND to start with, it would indeed go a long way, in terms of baby steps, to eventually getting that coveted respect.

tx coug,

Add to your list the ACC which has stated that BYU, for their programing purposes, is already
A P5 INDEPENDENT team. Thank you for your support of my article.


When a salesperson gets his foot caught in the door, he may suffer some pain. On the other hand, with the foot in the door, it leaves the door open long enough to sell the product.

Growing pains are not easy or everyone would be going through it. Some prefer not to go through those growing pains and remain mediocre. I hope that our Cougar fans are willing to go through the growing pains in order to become significant.

I’m optimistic about one thing, joining a P5 conference. It may take some current BOT members to pass away and new blood in before it happens, but that is the only way BYU becomes recognized as P5, not through independence.

Ron: “BYU must not accept any of the advantages of a Mid Major team. They must only do what P5 teams do. . . .
The world will recognize BYU as a P5 team, and nothing at all like a Mid Major team and nobody except ourselves will be able to stop that fact. Yes, we did it without permission. Yes, we took the initiative. Yes, with our deeds, we made ourselves a P5 team.” This is what I reacted to Ron. I stand by my post. We (“we” really can’t do anything - it is up to the BYU power brokers) cannot make ourselves a P5 team. 1) A P5 team, by definition, is a team in one of the P5 conferences. 2) For non-conference play, one or more of the P5 conferences will have to designate that they will accept us (like the ACC recently) “as if” the Y is a P5 team. In both instances BYU is not a P5 team and the Y is not in control.

If you are suggesting that BYU should do everything in their power to upgrade our program in every way possible, I concur.

Nice nastiness, though, I like it. Even though you repeat your posts over and over and over and over - I replied today mostly because the chronic pain I experience has increased in amplitude today and I have been a tad cranky. So, sally forth yon obsessive fan. Hint: If you are not already doing it, you could start your original posts into Word documents and then only have to cut and paste that to Cougarfan and then back and back and back to Cougarfan, ad nauseam, when you repeat your posts. That could save you a bit of time (no need to thank me for this tip).


We are already recognized as an Independent P5 team by the ACC. Also the Pac 12 is starting to program us as a P5 Independent team.

We do not need to be in a P5 conference to be recognized as an Independent P5 team for programming.

It wasn’t long ago at all, that no conference recognized us as an Independent P5 team for programing purposes. We got our foot in the door with the ACC. The Pac 12 is following the lead of the ACC. The Big 12 is not far behind. We are already making great inroads.
Hopefully if we can get the Big 10 to join in, the SEC, if they do not change their minds, will be the only P5 conference not to accept us.

My plan above, would guarantee us success as an Independent P5 team. Think about it with an open mind.

Ron. my only point is that I don’t think the anytime, anywhere mantra will succeed if BYU has few or no home games. Until BYU can enter into a scheduling alliance with a P5 conference or actually be invited to join a P5 conference, it will not have more than 2 or 3 P5 schools willing to come to Provo in any given year. If that is the case, I don’t think the local fans will put up with that and the critical dollars from donors will disappear.


regarding the 0 home games, remember that only 9 of the teams we play must be P5 teams.
The other 3 teams could be quality mid major teams, i.e. Boise State, Houston, Air Force or Colorado State etc.

Any of those teams would love to play us at home. If not those teams, there are others, i.e.
Utah State, New Mexico, UNLV, Nevada, etc. Among the nine P5 teams, we could work out, at first, 2 for 1 series to make up the needed 6 home games. As we become more accepted, as a full member of the Independent P5 team status, like ND, it will be easier to get more P5 teams to play us at home on a 2-1 basis.

We learn to crawl before we learn to stand up. We learn to stand up before we learn to walk.
We learn to walk before we learn to run. Many baby steps will get us where we need to be.
No baby steps will cripple us.

Kay, "And BYU is going to force P5 teams to play them in Provo, how?”

If you look at our schedule through 2020, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, yet we are scheduling, already, more P5 type teams, now, than at any other time in our history.

The more we schedule P5 type teams, the more that other P5 teams will WANT to schedule games vs BYU. The fewer P5 teams we schedule, the more reluctant the other P5 teams will be in scheduling us.

Again, it is our own behavior that dictates if we are to be recognized as an Independent P5 team or not. We will write the script for our own destination, be in a significant P5 type team or a mediocre Mid major team. The time for excuses is over. Accepting responsibility for our own actions or for our own lack of action, is what will determine if we will be accepted as a mid major or a P5 type Independent team for programing purposes.

“ I don’t think BYU football can survive playing only 2 or 3 home games a year, and that is likely what it would take for several years to have an all P5 schedule.”

If you read the article again, It is calling for 9 P5 teams to be played per season, like the P5 teams have to do. We can find 3 mid majors that would be happy to come to our house to play us. We can find at least 3 of the 9 P5 teams that would at least trade a 2-1 schedule to fill the slot.

Summary: We can find a million reasons why we should not put forth the effort to achieve.
We only need one good reason why we should.

Good points Roy

So what is the motivation for all those P5 teams to schedule us let alone travel to Provo? Have you not been paying attention to our current schedules? Do you think Tom wouldn’t love a 9 team P5 schedule with home and away contracts? Why do you think most scheduling contracts are 2-1 or include neutral site games or require two trips from us to their place before they come to provo (read drop out)?

You are basically asking for BYU to become Notre Dame, newsflash, we are not even close. It sounds great if you live in fairy land, but in the real world it’s the message board equivalent of talk radio “let’s trade Hayard straight up for Lebron and sign Kobe next year…I’ll hang up and listen” type talk, fairy land stuff.