KC,
You’re living up to your repetition. Read the article again.
Oh no Roy,
I do give credit where credit is due. Thank you for concurring to the apparent need for program upgrade.
In regards to repeating certain important issues, BYU teaches in their classes for the Mentally Challenged, that
the three R’s for learning, is repetition, repetition, repetition.
LOL, Ron
I wouldn’t necessarily mind the 2 -1 games if it wasn’t that when it comes to the 1 game sometimes it doesn’t end up happening. Tough call, but we have never been in a major conference so if you are going to claim elitism that’s where you have to go. I don’t believe, in my life-time, we can gain the stature of ND as an independent, so as an independent and a private university- it’s a tough road to be successful at. In my eyes, this year we were a mid-major team with a mid-major coaching staff. Not necessarily on subject, but let me throw out a hostile provoking question-Why has BSU been in all those BCS bowl games? (small city, smaller student body, facilities not as nice, member of MWC) and how did TCU end up in a major conference playing as good as ever. Answer that question and maybe you will find the answer of “is this what we are meant to be” or is there something different out there waiting for us Just stupid questions-but thoughts that occasionally go through my head.
Sr_Burton,
Your questions are not at all stupid.
They are the same questions that many of us have. Not everyone is willing to speak the truth, but the thoughts are there in the heads of many of us.
ND is a good example of not honoring the agreement to play at our house after we met our obligation to play at there house. The last time ND came to Provo, we beat them. Many of our games at South Bend have been too close for comfort. It is much harder to lose to a mid major than it is to lose to a P5 team. They don’t want to risk it. The embarrassment is too great.
If we could be thought of more as a P5 team for programing than a Mid Major team, than more P5 teams would be willing to play us because the chance of losing to us would be more acceptable if we are thought of as a P5 team than a Mid Major team.
We must earn that status by programing like a P5 team.
Kay,
I agree with you that the home game situation is one of those horrible growing pain problems that we will need to suffer until we are accepted by the majority of the P5 conference teams. ND, many years ago, had to suffer those pains until they proved themselves with multiple national championships etc.
I agree that more fans will want to travel to see us play a P5 game away, then they will want to attend a home game vs a mediocre game that has us play a nobody at LES.
Again these are the growing pains which must be endured if we are to advance.
No Pain–No Gain.
Look and act like a mediocre mid major team and we will be thought of as a mediocre mid major team.
Look and act like a P5 Independent team like ND, and sooner or later, with enough time and consistency,
we will be thought of as a P5 type team, like ND, for programing purposes.
SOS is not only important, it is everything.
If it looks like a fish, smells like a fish, swims like a fish, it is probably a fish.
This is the same syndrome that we must present as our BYU Football image.
Look like, progam like, be like an Independent P5 team for programing purposes,
and we will probably be considered as a P5 Independent team for programing purposes.
Kc, Kay, Roy, Sr Burton, and Tx Coug,
Today’s news sums up what I have been talking about.
Before last January it was all gloom and doom as ND was accepted as an Independent P5 time team for programing purposes and the ACC and the SEC made a point at saying that BYU is not ND and we do not qualify as a P5 team for programing purposes. These two conferences demand that their P5 teams play at least one P5 non conference game which squeezes out any opportunity for BYU to get a shot at P5 teams, which put us in the real of insignificance.
Last January, the ACC changed it’s course and puts us on the same footing as ND for programing as a P5 required team for a non conference game.
Now in March, our biggest critic, the SEC has accepted us on the same footing as ND as a P5 qualified team
for programing purposes.
This could not have happened if we were in a Mid Major Conference. This could not have happened if we have not started programing like a P5 team. As a Mid major conference team, we could not have scheduled as many P5 teams as we have.
Repetition, Repetition, Repetition. The more we schedule and act like a P5 team, the more P5 conferences
and P5 teams, will respect us as a P5 Independent team for programing purposes.
Now with this giant step, after many baby steps, we will soon start seeing P5 teams come to Provo in October and November and not just September.
Once all P5 conferences accept us as a P5 team for programing, our days of being thought of as a Mid Major team will all be in the real view mirror.
With the acceptance now of both the ACC and the SEC, along with 9/12 of the Pac 12 already having us on their schedule for 23 games, our stock has gone way up and we will be much more attractive now, when the time comes for P5 conference expansion. Just be patient and hold the course.
Not only that, AT HOME too!!! It isn’t just at their places. I think P5 teams also realize that if they just play home games and win, that hurts their over SOS and rankings. So, we are seeing teams playing us at home…
Let’s also remember, P5 teams play mid-level teams too. The sometimes play division 2 teams as well and thrash them as a warm up or a break during the year.
Grass Hopper,
Under the current ACC and SEC rules, they must play at least 9 teams from their own P5 conference. They must play at least 1 other P5 team as a non conference team. That leaves two teams that do not have to be
P5 teams. But still, SOS does matter very much as proven in last season Big 4 play off games when #4 in the Nation TCU was passed over in favor of #5 in the Nation Ohio State, and all because of strength of schedule.
The days of padding your schedule in order to get a guaranteed win are over if you want to make it to the play offs. Never again will you see a P5 team schedule a FCS team and BYU, if indeed they do want to be considered a P5 team for scheduling purposes, should never schedule another FCS team either.
Grasshopper,
I respectfully disagree with you.
Playing strong P5 teams helps your SOS regardless if you play them at home, or their house, or at a neutral site.
Playing FCS teams hurts your FCS no matter where the games are played.
Kay,
I understand your logic. I see it as good logic, however, yesterday’s news changes everything.
We all want our new born babies to be track stars and run faster than anyone else, but first, the child must learn how to stand up, next take a few steps, and all must be accomplished well before we can expect our child to be able to run. Winning races, if we work hard to achieve that goal, will come later.
Before January, 2015, it was all gloom and doom as we saw the ACC and the SEC conferences recognize ND as an Independent P5 team for programing purposes and making a strong point that BYU was not a ND and we do not deserve the status of P5 Independent team for programing purposes.
January 2015 the ACC changed it’s course and said that they would put BYU on equal ground with ND by accepting BYU as a P5 type Independent team for Programing purposes.
Wow, now our baby has learned to stand up.
Yesterday, in March, the SEC announced that they would put BYU on equal ground with ND in as much as BYU would now be accepted by the SEC as a P5 type Independent team for programing purposes.
Now our baby has learned to walk. The next step is to learn to run, one stride at a time.
9/12 of the Pac 12 has scheduled BYU for 23 games between now and 2027. The only teams in the Pac 12 that have not scheduled us is Oregon, Oregon State and Colorado. It looks like the Pac 12 is accepting us as a P5 type team with no fear of lowering their SOS.
All P5 conferences combined have now scheduled 41 games vs BYU from now until 2027. We are now taking a few strides in our running game.
I suggest to you that it won’t be long before we are considered by all P5 teams, as a P5 type Independent team for purposes of scheduling.
Once this happens, our growing pains with have enough medication that it won’t hurt anymore and we will start feeling our LES with major league P5 teams. Let the race begin.
KC,
I respectfully disagree with you. The ACC P5 conference, this past January, has disagreed with you. The SEC P5 conference, yesterday, in March, has disagreed with you. 9/12 of the Pac 12 P5 conference has disagreed with you. 41 P5 games in all, so far, has disagreed with you. (2015-2027)
It is now apparent, that BYU has finally been accepted as a P5 type team for programing purposes.
To keep that P5 status for programing purposes, we must keep our SOS as strong as possible and as as close as possible to those that are P5 schools.
No more, after this season, can we schedule FCS teams for any reason. Just say no.
Once all P5 schools will recognize BYU as an Independent P5 team, those other P5 teams will start coming to LES. The main thing that keeps them from coming now, is the stigma of Mid Major which we are shedding.
KC,
Can a baby win races in the 4-40 before it learns to stand on it’s own two feet? Of course not.
With the image of Mid Major still in the minds of some, the need for them to come to LES is not present.
If any mid major wants to play a P5 team, they must expect to have to play that P5 team at their home, or at best, on a neutral site.
Our image is rapidly changing.
The ACC P5 conference, last January, has now accepted us as a P5 Independent team for programing purposes.
Yesterday in March, the SEC has now accepted us as a P5 Independent team for purposes of scheduling.
The Pac 12 has 9/12 of their conference scheduling games vs BYU for 23 games as though we are an Independent team for programing purposes. Only Oregon, Oregon State, and Colorado has not scheduled at least one game with us.
Combined, with all the P5 schools, we have 41 games scheduled. (2015-2027).
Once the other P5 teams opens their eyes, minds, and hearts, and all P5 schools, led by the ACC, the SEC, and the Pac 12, see BYU as an Independent P5 team, than, we will be a P5 team, and our LES will see many, many, many more P5 teams coming to our home in Provo. In the meantime, our growing pains are requiring less and less medication and soon we will function well without pain killers.
Kay,
I share your concerns regarding the lack of interest in LES home games vs. Mediocre teams. we call this temporary growing pains.
In the meantime, BYU, @ LES, vs. Boise State, Connecticut, Cincinnati, and East Carolina is not all that bad.
Yes I agree that the game vs Wagner will probably see a lot of empty seats. This should never, ever, ever, happen again. Just say no to FCS teams. Yes, we should have at least 6 home games and not just 5.
These are the growing pains that we are enduring now. Yes they are painful. The prescription for those pain killers is SOS and with no FCS teams on our schedule. Just say no.
The pay off is that now the ACC, the SEC, and the non verbal communication of the Pac 12 has recognized us as a P5 type Independent team for programing purposes. This will bring, in the very near future, quality teams to LES, and when it does, our stadium will be sold out for every game once again.
Roy, have you changed your mind since last January, the ACC has verbally recognized BYU as a P5 Independent team for Programing purposes?
Have you changed your mind since the SEC, yesterday, has now verbally accepted BYU as an Independent
P5 type school for programing purposes?
Have you changed your mind since the Pac 12 now has 9/12 of their conference scheduling BYU as though we are a P5 type Independent conference with the only 3 teams not scheduling us being Oregon, Oregon State, and Colorado? These 9 teams has scheduled 23 games with us (2015-2027)
The Big 12 could go either way. Our only real obstacle, among all the P5 conferences is the Big 10. That acceptance will follow very soon if we continue to schedule our games, not for another winning season, and not for another meaningless bowl game, but instead, for P5 type scheduling for SOS.
Yes, Roy, I do believe that our (stomping around) regarding the need for a stronger SOS, our protest against scheduling FCS schools has born great new and better fruit as we see from the actions of the said power 5 conferences.
Yes Roy, I do believe that our past mid major thinking, scheduling the teams we play, to guarantee another meaningless winning season and another meaningless bowl game has finally come to a halt, and I do thank the powers that be for that sudden jerk to a halt. Now we are on the proper course, that win or lose, we are going to schedule like a P5 Independent team with a strong SOS, so that we can deserver, and not just demand, the right to be called a P5 team.
One more thought Roy. I don’t believe that being a Mormon school has anything to do with acting like a
mid major team or anything like acting like a P5 team. I think we use religion as an excuse sometimes for not doing what needs to be done or doing what should not be done. (Think TCU, Boston College, Baylor, ND, SMU and many other faith based schools.)
Grass Hopper,
Using your logic, why do we play our FCS game vs Wagner Seahawks, on10/24 which is a week before our bye week followed by a game vs. San Jose State??? Wow!!! Is San Jose State really that strong that we need two weeks off before playing them.
The next game after San Jose State is Missouri in Kansas City. Would it have been better to schedule San Jose State on 10/24 so we could have played that FCS team the following week with the next week after that being the bye week so we would have the two weeks to get ready for Missouri???
For me, there is never a legitimate reason for BYU to schedule a FCS team, especially when we SAY that we want to be recognized as a P5 Independent team for the purpose of scheduling. To all FCS teams, just say no.
Like I said, P5’s play them too. I like rest before Miss. Get players healthy
Grasshopper,
For everyone that complains about having no quality P5 teams coming to LES, let me remind you that before the ACC last January acknowledged BYU as a P5 type Independent team, like ND, for programing purposes, and before, yesterday, when the SEC acknowledged BYU as an Independent P5 type team, like ND for the purposes of programing, our own AD was able to schedule the following games at LES:
UCLA --------------- 9/17/16
Mississippi State 10/15/18
Southern Miss 11/19/16
Utah Utes--------- 9/9/17
UMass------------- 11/18/17
USC--------------- 9/14/19
Washington------ 9/21/19
Wisconsin-------- TBA
Arizona----------- 9/12/20
Az St.--------------- 9/19/20
Va.------------------ TBA
Az St.-------------- 9/18/21
Stanford------------ TBA
Arizona------------- TBA
2 games vs ND ----- TBA
Remember that all of this was programed before the ACC and the SEC recognized
BYU as a P5 Independent team for programing purposes.
We can now expect many more P5 teams to fill in the still open spaces for more teams during these years. The future looks great. Keep the course. Keep our SOS strong with no more FCS teams. Just say no to FCS teams. We are making much progress, Give credit where credit is due.
Stop being satisified with being a mediocre mid major type team. Stop making excuses for not pushing ourselves forward towards the greatness that we deserve. Instead, Grass Hopper, get on the band wagon and cheer our cougars on as they make the great plunge to be all that they can be. Don’t weaken their resolve with excuses for not excelling. They deserve better.
KC,
As you well know by now, and documented by Salt Lake Tribune, Provo Herald, Desert News, and ESPN,
We have already claimed P5 membership, as an Independent, for programing purposes. We now have
all the rights and all the Privileges of a P5 team, for programing purposes.
The only thing that we lack now, for full membership, is the money that all other P5 teams earn. The only way that we can earn that, is to be accepted into a P5 conference.
The only real choice that P5 conferences has now for conference expansion is ND and BYU. P5 teams without a conference). Some might include Army. I don’t include Army.
We must stay an Independent P5 team until such time as we are offered a place in a P5 conference. Even if we need to take less pay than the other teams in the conference, for the first 1,2, or 3 years, we must accept it.
The recent acceptance by the Pac 12 of BYU, scheduling 23 games in the near future, with 9/12 of their conference, and with the only 3 teams in the conference, that we won’t be playing, to date, being
Oregon, Oregon State, and Colorado, I think it is time to rethink a possible inclusion into that conference, the Pac 8/10/12/14. For me, and my thinking, the Pac 12 is by far the best way to go, considering the geography and the Church membership in California, which is greater than the Church membership in Utah.
With our new status of being a P5 independent team for programing purposes, we indeed are more attractive to P5 conferences for expansion, than at any other time before.
So we don’t have the money share of a P5, we don’t have the bowl game tie in of a P5, we don’t have the TV money of a P5, we don’t have the home schedule of a P5…tell me again why you believe we are P5? Because a few conferences say if they schedule us they will count the games towards THEIR bowl eligibility requirements???
Get real bro, it’s a way they can schedule us and not have to include us in a piece of their cake. Oh, and the service academies were also mentioned in that notice, basically meaning we are on par with them when it comes to P5 recognition, but enjoy the parade…