We can be P5 if we want to be starting now

Football
41

KC,

So far, and scheduled before we became an Independent P5 team for programing purposes, our AD was able to schedule the following home games vs. P5 teams:

2016: 9/17 UCLA
10/15 Mississippi St.
11/19 Southern Miss.

2017: 9/9 UTAH UTES
11/18 UMass.

2019: 9/14 USC
9/21 Washington
TBA Wisconsin

2020 9/12 Arizona
9/19 Az. St.
TBA Va.

2025 TBA Stanford

2026 TBA Az. State

It is my belief that now, because we have been accepted as an Independent P5 team, many more P5 teams will be coming to Provo.

If you would like a list of P5 teams during this same time span that we are scheduled to play, just ask and I
will be happy to give you the information.

42

I will put a months salary on it. My guess is half of those P5 home games listed to date will fall out, and we will be lucky to get 1-2 a year at home, and October and November home schedules will be non P5

43

Wow KC,

Just how much is a months salary.
If not too little, I may be willing to take you up on that bet.

I do understand where you are coming from.
It has been disappointing that ND has not yet honored their commitment.
You must remember that they have until 2020 to honor it so in fact, they have not yet reneged.

It was not LSU that cancelled on us during the last scheduled game with them. It was us that bowed out
as the rest of our schedule became too challenging for us at that time.

No KC, I donā€™t think we should bet on this situation. It would be too much like taking candy from a baby.
I think that our Cougar stock has gone way up. But then, I am the Realistic Optimist.

44

I think it was Gary Crowton who cancelled this LSU game.

45

Yes Dew.

Gary already had too much on his soldiers without adding to the problem vs. LSU.
I feel bad for him. I thought he was an excellent OC that was over his head as a HC.
I liked him and I still do.

Ron

46

Kay,

I share your concerns.
What is the alternative?

Should we continue to program like a mid major team and hope that someone, someday,
wants us to be a P5 team without earning it?

Should we try to get something for nothing, or should we suffer through the growing pains that it will take to be recognized as a P5 Independent team for the sake of programing?

Kay, there is real meaning to the saying: No pain/no gain.

The pain that we must suffer, if indeed we want to be considered a P5 team, is to play other P5 teams as much as P5 teams play each other.

That is usually 9-10 P5 teams per season. The other 2-3 games are usually high quality mid major teams. The time that a serious team wanting to be significant is over, when it comes to scheduling FCS team.

47

Kay,

I understand and I appreciate your logic, which is good.
I have a different opinion, and I believe that my logic is also good.

I believe that as a Mid Major team, we are very dangerious for a P5 team to play
because we are good enough, that on any given day, when we are clicking on all cylinders,
we are apt to upset that P5 team and it is very embarrassing for a P5 team to lose to a mid major team.

On the other hand, if we were considered to be a P5 team, than there would be no shame losing to us
because we are also a good P5 Independent team. More P5 teams would want to play us because at least for now, we have in comparison to other P5 teams, very little experience playing at that level and the other team could see themselves at an advantage playing us.

I believe that once we earn our way, through our improved strength of schedule, to be considered a P5 Independent team for the purpose of programing, we will have many more P5 teams wanting to play us and a certain percent of those games will be played at LES. Less at first, but more as time goes on. This is called
growing pains.

48

KC,

Very, very recent history has proven you wrong. We are now an Independent P5 team for programing purposes.

We do not have the big money that comes with that title because we are independent.

To get the big money that those P5 teams earn, because they are in a P5 conference, we must be accepted into a P5 conference.

Until such time, as when we are accepted into a P5 conference, we need to stay put as an Independent P5 team.

49

Kay,

I really do appreciate your line of protective thinking, but things have been happening that you may not yet aware of.

As you know by now, as the rest of the world knows by now, BYU has been accepted as an Independent P5 team for programing purposes. First back in January, the ACC accepted us but the all powerful SEC rejected us until last week. Now they, the most powerful conference in the nation has follow the lead of the
ACC and the SEC as accepted us as well as an Independent P5 team for programing purposesā€¦

Before we were recognized as an Independent conference, our AD has been doing a fantastic job programing P5 teams from the Pac 12, the Big 12, the ACC , the Big 10 and the SEC.

The Pac 12 has schedule 23 games with 9/12 of their teams playing BYU. The only teams not to schedule with us is Oregon, Oregon State, and Colorado. I think that in all, from now and until 2027, we have scheduled 41 games.

A list of those games scheduled to play at LES includes:

2016

9/17 UCLA @ LES
10/15 Mississipi State @ LES
11/19 Southern Miss @ LES

2017
9/9 Utah Utes @ LES
11/18 UMASS @ LES

2019
9/14 USC @ LES
9/21 Washington @ LES
TBA Washington St. @ LES
TBA Wisconsin @ LES

2020
9/12 Arizona @ @ LES
9/19 AZ. ST. @ LES
TBA VA. @ LES

2025
TBA STANFORD @ LES

2026
TBA ARIZONA @ LES

BETWEEN NOW AND 2020, WE ARE SCHEDULED TO PLAY ND WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN.

Remember that all of this was before we were recognized as an Independent P5 team.
With patience, it should be much easier now to fill in all the empty slots for each years programing with P5 teams. Keep the faith. Good things are happening for BYU and our AD is doing a great jog.

50

Thank you Tx Coug.

And by now you know that SEC has accepted BYU as an Independent P5 team and the rest of the conferences are now programing us as though we are indeed a P5 Independent team. I think from now until 2027 we already have 41 P5 team games scheduled and around 13 of those games are to be at LES. Remember,
ND has until 2020 to honor their two remaining games with us, which may or may not happen.

I believe now that we are recognized as an Independent P5 team, programing will be much easier for our AD, to fill in the empty spaces for each of the coming years with P5 teams. I hope that he doesnā€™t blow it by scheduling any more FCS teams. Just say no.

51

Ron, we should have 4 more with ND. They agreed 6, first 2 at nd and rotate next 4. True, may not happen

52

Thanks for the correction Dew. You are correct that the total due is 4 games. I think in my post, I was referring to the two games that were to be played at LES.

I think that many different issues are involved in ND delay in wanting to play us. One issue is their contract with the ACC.

Another issue is that as a Mid Major Conference Team, we came to close to comfort for ND playing them in their house. It would have been embarrassing to them to lose to a mid major team at home or anywhere elseā€¦

The other issue is the last time they played in Provo, we beat them. Gary Crowton was fired at half time during that game in front of 64000 fans. It was very embarrassing for ND to lose to us, a mid major conference team while we were in the MWC.

Now that we have been recognized as a P5 Independent team, the danger will not seem as great to ND.
I do expect that we will have at least 2 of those promised games fulfilled.

53

Kay,

I love your participation on this site and your enthusiasm for BYU Football. Like me, you try to be a realist. I like that. In this case, we were both taken by surprise when our biggest critic, the SEC announced that we were indeed to be respected as an Independent P5 team for programing purposes.

The fact that both the ACC and the SEC call us a P5 team, along with the fact that the Pac 12 has already scheduled something like 23 games with us in which 12 of them are in our own stadium, shows that it is a whole new outlook now and by staying the course, as an Independent P5 team, continuing to program more like a P5 team which our AD announced is now our goal, I think that you and I and the rest of the readers on this board can take a much more positive view of our destination than at any other time before.

54

Grass hopper;,

Iā€™m not sure that I understand what you are saying.

I donā€™t understand how playing a team at your own home lowers your SOS.

I donā€™t believe that to be true as I restated what I thought you said.

Please explain.

Thanks. Ron

55

I think we have a different definition of P5 program. Yours is that we are P5 because other P5 schools can schedule us and it counts towards their bowl eligibility, same as Army. But no other P5 benifit.

Mine is, we donā€™t have any P5 benifit so we are not P5, we donā€™t even have the same benefits as the MWC and other G5 schools. They at least get a guarantee NY6 bowl for the best of the bunch, see BSU last year. We have no such guarantees.

56

Home field advantage

57

Grasshopper,
I know that Las Vegas spots the better 4 points for a home field advantage, however, I really donā€™t believe that it has anything to do with lowering your SOS. It only allows the 4 points for betting purposes.
Thanks. Ron

58

KC,

You make some very good points.

Going back to my definition,

ā€œLast January, the ACC accepted us as a P5
Independent school and is using us to satisfy their P5 programing requirement. ND has always been accepted as a P5 school, but the ACC refused than and still does refuse to accept Army as a P5 school. At that time,
SEC said that ND is the only P5 school that met the requirement for being a P5 school. The SEC at that time, rejected both BYU and Army.

Last week the SEC reversed it position. They now say that BYU is a P5 Independent school that now meets the P5 requirement like ND and they also include Army, which the ACC still refuses to do.

Now letā€™s go to your definition:

You are 100% correct, as I have said and agreed with you in other posting.

BYU does not have the hugh financial benefits of being a P5 conference member where the conference teams splits all the proceeds from all the extra large TV pay outs etc.

The only way that we can benefit from those pay outs is by joining a P5 conference. We can not join until we are invited to join.

The other part of your definition, I also agree with that as a conference member, we would have a shot at being a team at large for the big dance. Independent ND has that same opportunity while BYU and Army still has not gained that share of the opportunity.

Yes, again, I agree that it would be nice to be able to join a P5 conference. We need to be invited for that opportunity.

We disagree if you advocate going back to Mid Major Conference.

We would lose our P5 standing that we have finally advanced to. We would lose the opportunity to schedule like a P5 school and instead, we would have to schedule like a mid major school.

Now we are like a P5 school more than we are like a mid major school. If we went backwards to a mid major conference, we would lose all gained respect and be more like a mid major school than a mid major conference.

We just have to have patienceā€¦ The AD is doing a great job. It can only get better with patience.

Thanks for your reply KC.

59

Grass Hopper,

If you are talking about before the 2014 season ended, you are correct that in rare cases, a P5 team might have scheduled a FCS team. That was then. This is now.

#4 in the Nation, TCU, at the end of the 2014 season, and the only team on the TCU program that beat them,
which was Baylor, were both passed over and not allowed to play in the Big 4 play off. Instead, they took #5
Ohio State. The reason that TCU and Baylor were passed over, was because of the Strength of Schedule.
Ohio State had a much stronger SOS. They got the nod for the playoff.

Never again, will you see a P5 team schedule a FCS team, if they are serious about getting into any playoff.

60

KayMorrell21d
Ron. my only point is that I donā€™t think the anytime, anywhere mantra will succeed if BYU has few or no home games. Until BYU can enter into a scheduling alliance with a P5 conference or actually be invited to join a P5 conference, it will not have more than 2 or 3 P5 schools willing to come to Provo in any given year. If that is the case, I donā€™t think the local fans will put up with that and the critical dollars from donors will disappear.

Kay, I love your logic. It is very sound in my opinion. I do respect it. Except for the facts that contradict it, I do agree with everything you said above. The facts that contradict it, and happened before we were considered a P5 team for programing purposes, follows, and I list below, only those teams scheduled to play at LES stadium. Yes, I am as surprised as you. Our AD has been doing a great job.

Scheduled to play at LES:

2016:
9/17 UCLA
10/15 Mississippi State
11/19 Southern Miss
Notice above, one Pr team at LES for each month.

2017
9/9 UTAH UTES
10/7 Not a P5 team, but one of the very best mid major teams with 2 BCS bowls, Boise State
11/18 UMASS

2019
9/14 USC
9/21 Washington
10/12 same as 10/7/17 Boise State (Becoming a rival)
TBA Wisconsin

2020
9/12 Arizona
9/19 Az.St.
TBA Virginia
Remember, ND has until 2020 to honor their commitment to play BYU @ BYU which may or may not happen.

2021
9/18 AZ State
10/9 THAT TOP NOTCH BLOISE STATE FROM THE MID MAJORS.

2025
TBA STANFORD

KAY, REMEMBERING THAT THESE approximate 12 P5 games being scheduled at LES was made before we
were considered a P5 Independent team for the purpose of scheduling. It will be much easier now. In addition to those being played at BYU, there are approximately 29 other P5 games scheduled to play away from BYU. WE have many, many, many empty slots to fill in more games.

Keep the faith. You have great understanding and logic about what is happening. Keep an open mind as there are changes every day and even as we speak.

To address one of your remarks in a very positive way, ā€œI would love to have an alliance, like ND has with the ACC, for football only, so we would have an automatic tie in for the big 4 bowl competition like ND. I do hope that our AD is working on that.

Thanks.

Ron