What we learned from the Arizona C game. Good and bad

Larimer and Hawks, No need to worry about Emery. The kid I have watched from Lone Peak for years IS the most ready for prime time Freshman I have every seen at BYU. Acts like he’s been here for years. No rust, very good defender, most likely will come in off the bench to spell KC but we will see him in there plenty along with KC and Fischer in pressure situations. Think Johnny Dee from San Diego. Had 20 and 4 assists.

Calvert, back from the mission, like Emery, looks to shoot anywhere inside of half court. Had 12.

Zeljass hit some 3s, finished with 12.

Hartsock also does not act like a fr…The scary thing here is this dude is a pure shooter, having that blind stepback jumper that Noah have but much greater range and more athletic. He is going to force Rose into playing him much more and I think it will come at the expense of Aytes.

The bad news here is that Aytes injured his ankle again but before that he showed me that he may be physical but hardly the explosive offensive player that we were told…has to put the ball on the floor and collect himself for his shot, by then defenses have collapsed and shut him down.

Toolson had 23 on 6 made 3s but he will struggle to find open shots as he has to collect himself to get the 3 off whereas Emery’s release is lightning quick. With KC out there Toolson, Zeljaas, and Calvert will all get open looks so they will be fine but only Emery creates his own shot. Are we better than last year after a 10 player turnover? Light years.

Davis could not be stopped by Arizona C (he also twisted his ankle in the first but came back) scoring 12 and pulling down as many boards. He could be a double double guy for BYU…Imagine 2 double double guys on BYU at the same time?

In case you think A. C was a push over team, they put up 107 in their last game and they are the same team (all Seniors) from last year that made the championship game in NAIA playoffs, eventually losing to Tony Engle (yep, Remember our interim coach before Cleveland,. he would have been legendary at BYU if they would have kept him)

All in all, this was a no pressure pickup game that does not count but I think the 18 3s will count as a new Marriott record.

Nice report but like you said, a no pressure pickup game that doesn’t count is probably the most significant thing you can take away from something like this. They scored 107 vs. Life Pacific college… but you didn’t mention that they lost to Dixie State by 10.

There is really NOTHING that can be learned from this game.

THe first meaningful game that we might learn something from would probably be when BYU plays Belmont at the end of the month. The Utah game will be a great test as well, but those games should show us who is going to be good for what and how much playing time guys will get.

I just hope everyone gets an opportunity and that once a rotation is figured out, that we stick with it and make something happen.

We learned plenty. Sorry, I forgot you were a referee and not a coach. We learned that we have a very good group of shooters and scorers. I think those that took the game off better get back on the court if they want to play. Everyone can flat out shoot. The defense played together well in the second half.
I know the team we played wasn’t that great but they looked a lot like teams we will be playing in the WCC.


They might as well have been playing a juco team. Arizona Christian plays Westmont for crying out loud, maybe you could go watch that game and I guarantee you that team couldn’t beat any wcc team so I’m not sure why you think the look a lot like teams from the wcc.

Your referee/coach obsession is fogging your judgement… but that’s nothing new.

Are you sore about not being here to watch a game the last few weeks? :smile:

Isn’t it you that says the WCC is a Rec team? Yep :slight_smile:

They could play with half of the teams in the WCC. They also had some starters in the post that were injured and not playing.

We will get back into watching games :slight_smile:

I didn’t see the game…too busy on the sideline watching our HS team lose another heartbreaker.

I think these games give legitimate takeaways because we get to measure two things: athleticism and shooting skill. From what I have heard, Davis and Aytes are legit bangers in the paint; those kind of guys produce, and they will. What you say about Emery is even more encouraging. I’m sticking with the ESPN guys who said Emery was a top 75 HS player, and believe that translates WAY better in BB than in HS.

pretty sure the rotation was set in stone when Rose found out Austin was coming back and Emery’s surgery went OK.


Toolson, Emery and Davis could be starters. Hartsock, Calvert, Zeljaas, and Chatman all demand time.

Personally I don’t like the idea of Austin and Kaufusi starting at the same time as they are both passive on scoring. My dream team would be KC, Fischer, Kaufusi, Davis and Emery with Austin, Toolson and Hartsock coming off the bench. Just the right mix of outside shooting with good inside play and defense.

Do you think Rose will rotate 11 players in a manner that will allow them sufficient floor time to be effective? I didn’t notice Aytes in either grouping…

This is one reason why I don’t think a game like this says much at all. Rose spent forever and a day trying to figure out a rotation and who he was going to play significant minutes last year. I felt like it was a mini disaster last season because there were guys who languished on the bench that proved to be very capable when given an opportunity while guys who were getting the minutes weren’t performing. It explains some of the more strange losses (like twice to Pepperdine) and left some of us scratching our heads at the end of games.

Anyhow, I think I will wait until BYU plays a real team before I comment about starters and significant contributors.

I’m talking potential here. Every team in America uses that pre conference season to figure out who the horses are for conference. I’m fairly sure we will see plenty of combos between now and Dec.

Aytes and Chatman are kind of out of the conversation right now as they are dealing with injuries.All I am trying to point out is the obvious, KC, Fischer and Austin are starters and who do you add to those three to fill out the starting 5. Emery would be my choice but he has to back up KC when he needs a breather. I can’t see Kaufusi and Austin starting together when you have a proven scorer in Davis ready to roll.

Atyes didn’t show anything. He looked intimidated. Davis was okay after his ankle roll. But, the guy no one is talking about that I think will get more and more playing time is Hamson. You can’t coach 7’2" and he’s not awkward.

Two players that can steal some real time are Hartsock and Hamson. I saw now awkwardness with Hamson. I’d like to see Kaufusi replaced with Hamson. Austin can play the 4 position and replace Hartsock or Davis. Emery needs to start. If Fischer is hot and cold disappearing in big games, put Emery in. I haven’t seen Chatman so who know. What a great year making players work hard for playing time!

This year’s team is way different. Hamson isn’t being mentioned much at all. But, he’s by far better than what Neilsen was. Hamson is athletic and we better get him playing time or he will end up a UTE.
At this point, start with 10 in the rotation until it’s a blow out and then put in the others so they can try and prove they belong in the rotation. Next year we get back Mika. Man!!!

Perhaps even match up with the competition will dictate a change in starters and rotation. How quickly does Hamson develop? Can he play defense. If he can, no need for Austin.
I think Davis will eventually start at the 4.
Emery has to play. Perhaps Ainge can figure things out faster to give KC a spell. Emery has to play.

Realistically, the benefit of playing a preseason game is that the coaches can see how the individuals on the team do against another team. It is sometimes hard to evaluate players in practice. It is easier for the coaches to evaluate how groups of player work together and which player are consistently where they are supposed to be on defense. Teams generally do not schedule preseason games against teams that can beat them.
With that in mind, what we do and don’t know from the game,
We know have a group of guys that can shoot if they are open.
We don’t know if they will be able to get open against real competition.
We have a general idea of where the depth chart is/should be.
We know that we have a group of young players that can take advantage of momentum and put a team away.
We have no idea whether or not this team is better than any actual team on our schedule.

Everything else is just speculation at this point. I have some concern that BYU was close at the half. I have some concern that Arizona C seemed to be open on too many plays. I have some concern that Emery seemed exhausted in the middle of the first half. I recognize that the pace was fast at that point, but the Arizona C player seemed to have enough in his tank to steal the ball and go for a layup. That should not happen. I was impressed with the fact that we seemed to be hitting open shots. I hope that trend continues. I was impressed by the fact that Hartsock appeared to be able to consistently hit that shot without very much space. I liked the fact that we were able to go on a sustained run. Overall, I liked the fact that we were able to do well with 3 of our starters out. However, I don’t know what all that means in the grand scheme of things because I have no idea how the play of Arizona C compares to the other teams on BYUs schedule.

I think Rose said it at halftime that the young players needed to figure out some things especially on defense. I thought they did figure it out and we saw what happened.
Arizona was not that bad of a team especially in the first half.

The difficult thing with this group is if they can learn to play defense together and on offense pass enough to get wide open shots and more shots in the paint.

Hartsock really looked good. If he’s second string he will dominate his counterpart. What I’m interested in seeing is how Hamson will challenge Kaufusi. I hope Rose sees his 7’2" possibilities and gives him a legit chance.

Hamson is a project. He will fit in nicely after Austin retires. But to say that he can challenge Kaufusi for time is a joke. Kaufusi has a NBA body. Austin and Hamson are stick bodies

Disagree about Hamson. Hamson can move well and shoot very well. I haven’t seen Kaufusi and see if he can score yet. Having and NBA body doesn’t mean he has the talent. I like the competition.

but don’t take my word for it.

You haven’t seen Kaufusi? The guy that started at center for BYU most of last year? You haven’t seen him?
I am as excited about Hamson as anyone. I was hoping he was more filled out. Now I am hoping that he can get more meat on him before next year. The Hamson that I saw against Arizona C will not challenge Kaufusi for time. Not this year at least. In the game Hamson was 1-2 for two points. I heard he shot a bunch of threes during warm-ups but shooting well during warm-ups does not make someone starter material. Shooting a bunch of threes certainly does not make someone a potential center. My current hope for Hamson is that he can progress enough to get in the rotation this year at center. Then, I hope he can be developed enough to compete for starting position next year or the year after.
Imagine if we had a rotation of Kaufusi, Mika and an NBA ready Hamson at the Center position in a couple of years. We would be able to shut down any front line in the country. However, the distance between the Hamson I saw and the Hamson in that fantasy is still very large.

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I haven’t seen him play this year. Can he shoot and score any better? You don’t know. Hamson was 2-2.