the worst record of the dave rose era so far was either 2006 or 2014. 2006 with 20-9 record his first year, in some ways doesn’t count much. Buried in the past and clearly a transition to the Dave Rose Culture on the bball program.
2014 was 23-12 the fewest wins outside of 2006 and the most losses in any of the Dave Rose seasons.
This year is likely to have a higher of number of losses than either of those two teams. So far 6 losses. add to that two tournament losses. NIT and WCC tournament. then add two losses to Gonzaga one more loss to SMC and the team is then at 11 losses without losing to either Santa Clara or USF which are both on the road and both likely losses.
Given the Cougs performance on the road it would be surprising if they could actually win at both USF and Santa Clara. The more likely outcome is losing at both.
So far 6 losses.
2 losses to Gonzaga
1 loss to SMC
1 loss to USF
1 loss to Santa Clara
1 loss WCC tournament
1 loss NIT
adds up to most losses in the Dave Rose era.
On the win side.
to get above the 20 win mark of Dave Rose’s first team the current team must convert one of the expected losses to a win
or
win one or more tournament games.
BYU will likely win at least and probably exactly 1 game in Vegas.
BYU will likely win at least and maybe more than 1 at home in the NIT.
Thus BYU will likely have 21 wins and 12 losses when the NIT starts.
Unless the team actually makes it to the NIT title game the team will not get the Rose standard 25 wins.
Admittedly lots of ifs but…likely. Dave Rose’s youngest team, and the one with the ‘most talent’ will have his worst or close to his worst record. The 2014 team too was ‘talented’ Kyle Collinsworth, Tyler Haws, Matty Carlino, Eric Mika…three ‘all time greats’ who couldn’t put it together…
Even though I didn’t watch much of the game last night, there are some things about this team that are very apparent, and Rose is part of it.
This team is playing the worst conceived defense I believe I have ever seen from a BYU team (not just Rose) and on top of that, they play it extremely poorly. As it stands, there is not a single guy, including Mike and Childs, who has the lateral movement to prevent penetration. Part of that is the lousy 1-3-1, but the problem is the same in man to man. No team that allows the penetration that BYU does can prevent open shots as the rotations just can’t keep up with the ball movement that can be generated when defense players don’t stay in front of their guy. Is it bad coaching or just bad play - who knows, but it’s killing this team. And strangely, they are much worse at it on the road than at home, defying the old basketball adage that defense travels. It stays home with this BYU team.
Likewise, the offense has some issues. Positioning and spacing on the floor is often lacking, screens are set poorly or not at all, too many shots are taken without squaring to the hoop, passes are thrown wildly, and discipline is sourly missing - again much worse on the road than at home. Sometimes it seems as if Rose has no control over these guys and street ball takes over.
I don’t doubt that this team has some good talent, but Rose has not been able to even get them close to meshing as a team and when we are into the season this far, that is a huge coaching issue to me. These guys should be getting better - but in reality, they may be getting worse and that’s a bad sign to me.
Starts with recruiting Mr Basketball types. How about for once recruit a lock down defender athlete? BYU lost to SCU because we were 1 step slow all night. Poor at staying in front. deplorable at the pic and roll from a big man point of view, too many guys jump out to cover the open three only to watch a pass to a wider opener 3. This is coaching failure at it’s best, my fandom friends.
18 turnovers…is it a road issue? hardly. I watched BYU play smart control ball for about a minute, around the 6 minute mark when they got the ball into Mika after he had single handedly fouled out their 2 bigs, then for the last 5 minutes we resort back to hero ball and Mika sees no more. Epoch coaching fail.
Harold writes, “Worst team of the Dave Rose ere” and then goes on to defend how great he is and how he will be one of 4 guys first to 300 wins. While I sit here and see a very clear pattern of years and years of Rose losing to pathetic teams on the road. Does not matter if Rose has veteran teams or Fr teams. It is a pattern.
I agree with a lot of your analysis. Squaring to the hoop is what I thought we had finally overcome. Especially Haws. Last night the problem came back.
However, we really again lost the game in that 6 minute period of not scoring. So, while we were unable to stop their 3 point shooting, their defense seemed to have stepped up their intensity going for half court traps. Especially on Bryant who dribbled into a sideline trap several times and we weren’t ready for it.
Mika’s post defense is really good. You don’t us the slide at the post like you should as a guard outside. His D was fine and so way Childs. But, it’s the guards and I didn’t expect Emery to move as well with the leg injury. That’s why he wasn’t on Browning.
Haws and Bryant’s defense lacks partly to weak floppy bodies. They need serious weight room training. They start knees bent in good position it straighten up as they slide and start hopping. That’s partly do to weak frames but also they often start sliding with the wrong foot putting themselves behind the offensive player and end up crossing their feet set up for a crossover dribble. Haws legs are too wide to start with and back hunched. Can’t move the lead foot like that.
But, I’ll say it again. When it comes down to winning, just winning, we miss layups and short shots other teams don’t. We lose by eight and missed 4 at the rim layups. We shoot 3-15 from 3’s. Yes the defense isn’t very good. But we should still have won that game as well as others we lost based on missing easy shots. That’s concentration. Too much hotdogging.
One other thing, why didn’t we start full court pressing a lot sooner? Like at the 5 minute mark. We should have started the game in a press and after half time. Mix up defenses more too. The 1-3-1 was used only for 3 plays all on a row. The first time we got a steal. Great time for a full court press! Mix it up!
I have to agree with you. TJ threw up a few of the most selfish shots ever, while Mika wondered why he couldn’t get any touches. What is more galling is that Santa Clara played the last 8 minutes or so without any big men and Mika was being guarded by a 3.
TJ was officially credited with 4 TO’s. However, in the first half he had 2 shots that hit the side of the back board on attempts where guys were draped all over him. The shots should have been considered TO’s. He had 5 shots that were so silly and didn’t make the rim that objective observers will consider them TO’s. Haws would have had to score 29 points to compensate for his minus numbers. It boggles my mind that any coach in D-1 wouldn’t pull him off the court and talk to him. It is crazy, so much so that you have to think that promises were made before TJ even left on his mission about playing time because it is such poor coaching that I don’t think Rose would normally have any part of it… But with TJ he just ignores it.
Right on Harold.I stand corrected. But ir has been six years since BYU’s last league title under Rose and 0 for 5 in the Rec. league St.-Zag WCC. The way this year’s team is playing it will be a miracle if BYU comes anywhere near a conference title this year. Didn’t some people say Final Four this year? Oh maybe they meant Final Four in the WCC.
thawk: I guess in saying TO you mean turn over? What about bonehead shots when there is no body near the bucket when BYU comes down the court? Like tonight, BYU’s defense was almost missing in action, that’s MIA FYI. In my opinion Haws and Emery are MIA this year. Emery played much better last year. BYU seems to look like a team that is well under coached.
Sorry, thawk, I just saw your post. Thanks for the comment. I just finished posting on the LMU thread about TJ’s incredible run recently of turnovers and shots that should be considered turnovers. Few freshmen in BYU history have had his scoring ability from all over the court, but I agree that it is mystifying that Coach Rose tolerates the lazy and sloppy play.
Hopper thinks the way to teach our guards is to let them keep doing the things that lose games and don’t make them better players. Just keep mentioning the poor passes, TO’s , terrible shot selection and lack of concentration on defense is what hopper wants and evidently may be Rose is following that line of thought. Maybe Rose is mentioning it every TV timeout, halftime etc… In practice??? We don’t know what he is doing although hopper feels he knows. All we know for sure is that the poor play is continuing and Haws attempts crazy passes every game that go for TO’s. This past game, Rose finally got mad and pulled Emery out in frustration and put Beo in. LJ Rose has had his minutes cut. Emery isn’t as bad as Haws. Haws needs some kind of repercussion for doing what he does… A good coach would have made an example out of him 12 games ago.
He tolerates it because he keeps letting him do it without putting him on the bench. If Beo wasnt good enough to play, why is Rose putting him in the game for other people??? Just not Haws??
He’s been giving Guinn more time in place of Haws. In Basketball, you go with talent every time. Without the talent you do not ever have a chance for the final 4. Coaching is important. You have to know how to use the talent. I’ve been saying most of the turnovers are because we have no real offense. We go inside most of the time but it breaks down. If Mika doesn’t score, there is no one to clearly pass it too. Rarely do we have cutters. Little off screens are being set. Put Haws in with a real offense and he gets open looks and lots of layups. Same with Bryant. Emery doesn’t have the hops to do that every time.
Emery got pulled because it was his 3rd foul. Not because Rose was upset with him.
Watched Rose pull Bryant after 3 straight turnovers. Watched him pull Haws to two earlier games when we was out of control. We also know that he is stuck with having to play Emery, Bry and Haws even when they are playing hero ball just because we can’t replicate their scoring…These guys all have to know that 23 TOs is unacceptable and death on the road???
At least Emery kept his record of made 3s. It is super uber important that he continue to beat Jimmer in that regard. Important for him, for BYU basketball and most importantly for the team…I was sooo worried about that and just wanted to get that said.
Hopper, you are maddening! Why would Beo have to put up 25 to 30 a game? TJ turnover doesn’t do that. How about 12 to 16 a game without the terrible TO’s and way better defense than TJ plays??
That would be just fine with me. Actually, I am not advocating Haws be completely benched! He should play. He just needs to play smarter, which I think he can. But obviously he can’t play the right way without a little tough love from Rose. Seriously, why wouldn’t you want to help every player get better by immediately putting them in a teaching situation with a little bench time. The way things are going… And have been going this season, we aren’t getting any better and we are wasting Haws by not showing him the way to success.
Okay, so you think they aren’t getting better. I disagree. A talented person doesn’t get better sitting on the bench. I do think that Haws and Mika are playing too many minutes and that hurts them because of fatigue. I’m okay with better rotation.
My big argument at this point is the offense Rose is running. I think it creates most of the turnovers. Many times there literally no one to pass it too.