There’s your goalpost…
I do all the time. And your conspiracy theories too 
At Ricks, we called them the Gestapo, snitching was an artform.
BYU hardly better but being married, I had little to worry about other then tucking hair behind ears before a test. The whole idea of being compelled to be good goes against everything we have been taught. The HC surely does more harm then good in the way it is constituted.
Have an HC but let the kids govern themselves and so long as they are not involving others, let the HC be between themselves and the lord. If it does involve others, then the HC office should be involved
Specking of the HC…is everyone here aware that BYU police LOST its statewide authority because officers were feeding confidential info back to the HC, talk about a legal nightmare for BYU.
I always referred to them as the Gestapo. There is a better way and hopefully they will find it. I think Coach Edward’s was a genuine influence on players and a tough one to deal with for the HC would be enforcers
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In the “Protest” that current and former students have been holding, they want the HC to remain, but they want how it is enforced (Policy, snitching, administration) to change.
What is interesting to me is that the HC never had anything to do with dress ,chastity, grooming, drugs and alcohol standards until 1957 (President Wilkinson).
So it can change over the years, why can’t it be a change in how it is administered?
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agree with you guys on the honor code comments. Too many people get weird about it and start going all old testament and mosaic law about it.
That hasn’t been the case for 2000 years yet they still act like it a lot of the time. Chris is right about the way it is implemented being in opposition to the way we are taught about agency and other related things.
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I believe it has to. Everything is changing so fast, that the HC is a relic from Wilkinson’s days and we have to realize that all of us can live an honorable life, which is not mistake free, but a process from our experiences. Our worthiness should not be predicated on whether we have facial hair, or hair that curls around our ears or the fact that we err on occasion, but one based upon our experiences to move forward and try and emulate Christ the best we can. The feeling that their are “snitches” all around, watching every move we make and making their own judgements and interpretations, is not a healthy environment for anyone
I pretty much agree with everyone’s prior comments on upgrading the HC enforcement. Except the ones from the insect!
That’s a different issue than the HC itself. First, the HC compels no one. Every student freely agrees to it and signs their name. Just like we do with our Temple Recommend interviews. No one compels you to make your covenants to the Lord. You are just wrong with that assumption.
Second, if you break a covenant made in the Temple, do you govern yourself for full repentance? Nope. You go to your bishop and possible a Council is held. So, it’s not just between you and the Lord. BYU runs the same way and when you sign your name to agree to the HC you also agree to be held accountable to the HC department. Whether it involves others is unimportant. As for those who commit sexual relation acts with another does involve others. The person you did it with. Drinking alcohol often involves doing it with others as well. But, regardless of that, it can put a black eye on the school.
Should other students snitch? For some things, yes. For others, sometimes a student can figure out a way to stop a problem before it gets out of hand. I did that with a football player once. Saw him getting abusive with a coed and he was married. I made it clear to him I was there observing and sat down where it was happening, in the library. Started talking to him asking how he and his family were doing. He got embarrassed and a bit flustered and left. The girl was in some of my classes and she thanked me. I asked her if she wanted to report it and she declined. The problem didn’t happen again.
So Scott based on your comment, It would appear that the church should start excommunicating people for not living the word of wisdom as well as not being nice to our neighbors…
If they are fat and overweight, they have violated the “LAW” of the Word of Wisdom and should be excommunicated for violating a rule that they agreed to when they joined the church.
If they drink herbal “TEA”, then they should be excommunicated.
If a teenager “necks” they should be excommunicated because they violated the “LAW” of Chasity.
Get the picture I am drawing?
Not really. My point is the rules are agreed to by the students. The consequences for breaking the rules are also laid out. Guidelines are laid out for bishops as well. Members know the consequences. So do students when it comes to breaking the rules. Remember, BYU isn’t the Lord’s University. Right? That’s what people say. So, the guidelines can be different, right?
“They draw near to be with their words, but there hearts are far from me”
Are we becoming more like the four at that intersection?
I believe that some members of our church are becoming more like the Jewish leaders in ancient Israel. They were more focused on the “letter” of the law, rather than the “letter and spirit” of the law.
Scott,
Do you live the Word of Wisdom “EXACTLY” as it states in the D&C? Or do you live EXACTLY all the commandments of the Lord?
If you don’t, then you should be excommunicate for breaking the rules you knowingly agreed to upon being baptized (which actually happened in the 1850’s by BY).
The issue is, where does repentance come into play? Or even more important, the Atonement?
Most people have no problem with the written rules of the HC, however, how it is administered basically goes against the teaching of the gospel.
Straight is the way and narrow is the path.
What does this mean?
Was Jesus wrong when he walked among the lepors that were to be shunned at that time"
Was he wrong when he saved the Prostitute from being stoned and made her his life companion?
Was he wrong when he chose fishermen that spent weeks at a time out to sea, mostly with only men aboard, yet made them his apostles? Why didn’t he choose the holiest of those from the synagogues?
Was he wrong when he ate dinner with the most despised men upon the face of the land, the tax collectors?
Was he wrong when he turned un-pure water into wine instead of turning un-pure water into pure water?
Was he wrong with the gospels of tolerance and forgiveness? Or was the Bible just not translated correctly?
Isn’t there any wiggle room for sanity, respect, love, compassion, tolerance, forgiveness, changing times? Was the Bible Wrong when it says, "Judge not, lest ue be judged, and leave all judging to God? Or was this just another mis interpreted part of the Bible?
Floyd,
I know that you disagree with me on much of what I post, however, I find it, like it or not, that I find that I agree with almost all that you post, except for when we have different points of view. I feel that you have a very clear head and a true heart and I do appreciate you and your postings.
Ron
Where does it say leave all judgment to God? Why do we have repentance and commanded to confess sins to proper authority and make restitution? And, while we can be tolerant, we also have to teach and preach the Gospel which includes the Doctrines, Commandments and Laws and Ordinances of the Gospel. At least in the Church with the fullness of the Gospel.
How does it go against the teachings of the Gospel if BY applied excommunication? He was a prophet of God. Anytime a new organization begins you have to be thought and to the letter of the law to set the standards. Same when a business first gets started. Later on, there can be relaxing of discipline. Same with a new coach. The standards have to be set.
Now, we do not excommunicate for everything. But, that doesn’t mean it can’t be done if the sinner attacks the leaders. There still has to be discipline.
D&C 64:10-11
10. I, the Lord, will whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to all men.
11. And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God between me and thee, and thee according to thy deeds.
Doctrine and Covenants 137:9
9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their , according to the desire of their hearts.
Now before you get a tightie whitey in a bunch…
The Lord never said we should never make judgements (Judge not unrighteously) about things or people, we have to do that all the time, but what he said about judging other people’s worthiness issue, that is left to those that have been ordained as judges in Israel (Stake Presidents and Bishops). Unless you are a Bishop or Stake President, you can not judge someone else worthiness.
Who said it went against the gospel? Not me, I said he did a mass excommunication for people not living the word of wisdom, which if you do your research in church history, it was not a commandment until 1856 or so.
My question to you was "Do you live the Word of Wisdom exactly? Noticed you never answered that question.
Because according to you, you knew what was required of you to live the word of wisdom when you made promises (baptism). So you should be expelled from the church for not living that law EXACTLY, just like the student who says the will live the honor code and fails to live up to it.
You both knew what you signed up for.