thawk is correct
Floyd, Emery lived right next to BYU ⌠not all over the country! The only times Nick was away from the university and the basketball complex ⌠which is where he should have been ⌠was when he was jet setting around the globe on the dime of boosters. It isnât just Rose although the the buck stops with him as head coach. Rose has another 6 members of his staff who also should be responsible. The BYU athletic dept has multiple compliance officers who are assigned to the basketball program. BYU has to keep an eye on social media for all their NCAA athletes. Nick posted from most of the events where he broke NCAA rules. Teammates were aware of where he was and coaches should have been. They donât have to stop him, but they needed to question him and if he lies to them at least they have a paper trial that they attempted to make sure things were on the up and up. That kind of institutional control will be looked on favorably by the NCAA. Not knowing or doing anything proactive is what gets you on the hook ⌠which is what BYU is now on! The coaches at BYU donât take the summer off and neither do the athletic dept employees. They are paid, full time employees. I am hesitant to say this but there was BYU coach dismissed during this time period and there is a feeling that there might be more knowledge in the basketball program about these kinds of activities than is being portrayed. Donât know if there is truth to this or not.
BYU and other NCAA schools put a lot of adults in charge of supervision so that the vulnerable college athlete isnât presented with temptations and offers before they sign letters of intent. No boosters are allowed to be involved in the recruiting process. Somehow those 4 boosters were able to become involved with the student athletes after they got into the program at BYU. Having a coach walk a booster through the athletic facility is not a bad thing. Allowing boosters to walk themselves through the facilities is a really bad idea. Access to BYU facilities that house NCAA athletes should be very guarded ⌠as we now know!!
Actually you are the one that needs to Stop⌠No you did not bring up the âWhyâ, but you sure like to condemn when you do not have âallâ the facts! You donât know anything about what really went on, why it happened, or if there was something that made the rules a bit unclear. All you see is the black eye BYU got. So you like vilify Emery for it.
I am not apologizing for Nick nor his behavior, what he did was wrong, but I also understand that Nick is still young and will make dumb mistakes. I also know through another source that Nick went through some very personal things that has not been revealed âYetâ.
What makes me upset the most? Is people like you who are so dam judgmental. You act like the judge, jury and executioner. All because poor BYU got a black eye⌠Let me tell you a little secret⌠BYU is not a âPerfectâ nor are there perfect people there.
Who gives a crap if BYU got a black eye! It has happened before (or do not remember the rape cases by the football players, or how BYU HC re-victimized a rape victim by punishing her again?, which the school rectified with new policies).
BYU will survive, they will make changes so that they can mitigate this type of things in the future. That is one thing BYU does well. What this event shows us is the true nature of some fans⌠âvery judgmentalâ.
Truth is hard to take at time, and If I offended anyone, I apologize. What I wonât apologize for is my stand that every one deserves a chance to redeem themselves. Regardless if it caused a black eye or not⌠If that is not possible, then why do we have the atonement?
What flipping world do you live in?
Do you have or had Teenagers?
Do you know every single thing that your teenager are/have done while living in your house?
If you say âYesâ, then I know you have no clueâŚ
You expect a coach and AD department, to monitor these kids 24/7 and expect them to âwatchâ them⌠LOL
How do you know boosters are corrupt? Are you or Rose a mind reader? And, how do you know Rose hasnât chased off many corrupt boosters in the past? You donât.
Rose and the school didnât hide it and self imposed restrictions and complied with the NCAA. So, why does Condelizza Rice want to make and example out of BYU? Yet, not with really big name universities? I smell a racist attack.
Floyd you are caught up in this Emery deal so you are not looking logically at it. I am not getting on Emery ⌠everyone knows he shouldnât have done the things he did. I am getting on BYU and their complaining about the vacating of wins when it is obvious that the athletic dept (probably Santiago ⌠but buck stops with Holmoe) and the basketball staff, including Rose didnât do their jobs. What really gets me is the rewarding of Rose with a contract extension at the exact moment that the NCAA is coming down on the school. These errors in judgement and oversight bother me more than what Nick did. I am not saying Nick shouldnât be forgiven. I am saying that he should be forgiven and lose his scholarship. I am saying that Rose and his staff need to be way more proactive. I am saying that the BYU Athletic Dept should be way more proactive and ⌠additionally use way better PR skills and judgement than extending a contract for a coach who shouldnât be rewarded at this point for what went on over the Emery infraction time frame. Your list of excuses ⌠that BYU isnt perfect and that other programs have done bad things over the years âŚso somehow this Emery situation should not be expected to be handled in a better way ⌠doesnât add up. The football coach who over saw the program that you referred to ⌠got fired. Right? He didnât have his contract extended nor did he actions get BYU on NCAA probation or fined or have scholarships reduced or wins vacated. Actually, many of us do care if BYU gets a black eye ⌠not so much from 20 years olds making poor choices but from the lack of judgement from the paid employees of the school who didnât do their jobs and are pushing back against the NCAA on issues that they should have taken responsibility for ⌠and didnât!
Emeryâs list of personal problems doesnâtt have anything to do with what I am saying. His list of personal issues isnt a reason to allow the behavior to go unpunished either. Whether or not he is forgiven is up to him and his actions from here on out. Emeryâs issues donât have a connection to the the decisions that were or werenât made on the BYU basketball staff or at the athletic administration. You are missing the whole point ⌠and not very smart about it either.
[quote=âgrasshopper, post:65, topic:8135â]
How do you know boosters are corrupt? Are you or Rose a mind reader? [/quote]
-
Not all boosters are corrupt. Obviously, none of us are saying that. The four who gave over $12,000 in illegal benefits to Emery are corrupt. Do you agree with that at least?
-
You donât have to be a mind-reader if you have institutional control of your team. If you do, then when corruption happens you can demonstrate that you did everything you could to prevent it, and it happened anyway. Truly not your fault, not just whining about it.
Irrelevant. The fact that he didnât have controls or a system in place to provide minimal protections is whatâs at issue. Why, for example, given the voluminous social media posts about the trips and concerts, didnât Rose and the athletic department know? As has been pointed out, there are paid positions responsible for just that, and there was an institutional breakdown. It isnât all on Rose; the ADâs office shares blame here.
I agree with you that there is a double-standard and hypocrisy here, and the NCAA had better be just as hard or harder on other programs who do as much or worse violations.
Isnât it ironic that fans expect and administrators expect BYU to live up to the honor code and virtually suspend players for going off the the straight and narrow path, and of course vilify big name coaches whose programs get hammered for infractions, yet when it becomes BYU, they become defensive and do all they are able to deflect criticism. All of the way from the top to the bottom, the staff is just or unjustly responsible for the conduct of the players. Itâs not that Nick just snuck out one night and lit up a joint, which would have probably got him suspended , but something that was ongoing over a period of time. For crying out loud, he was driving a VW Jetta all over creation and nobody had a clue? Get a grip. Emery paid the price, so thatâs over and time to move on. Rose gets a contract extention-that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
1 Like
Rubicon and Hopper, we better hope that Rose hasnât chased off corrupt boosters from the BYU locker room before ⌠or else BYU will get hit even harder ⌠if Rose and Co knew that there was a likely problem and still didnât deny access ⌠we are in bigger trouble than we thought!!
Reid lost most games for a year and a half. He lost control of the players and the program. He did make a snafu.
This is the problem with political correctness. People have to be perfect. A doctor just told me people in other employment can still make some mistakes. In his business he has to be perfect or heâs in court. Itâs really sad to see people at each otherâs throats.
How do you know Rose had nothing in place to spot corrupt boosters? I seriously doubt that since this hasnât happened before with Rose all these years. Prove it!
Floyd, you are right. I donât know everything my kids did or will do. As a parent that doesnât prevent me from setting curfews, following up on where they say they have been, asking questions about who they are going with, who is driving, do they they need money ⌠bring back the change etc! Through these methods I have prevented and or discovered unfavorable circumstances that could have/did had/have negative consequences for my kids. Did/do I check social media and follow them on social media? Of course! Did they have to give me passwords for their phones? Sure!
If my kids would have gotten in a wreck with the car or vandalized something ⌠would I as the parent have had to shoulder some of the responsibility? Absolutely!
Do the sins of the children fall upon the heads of the parents ?.. Do the the sins of student athletes fall on the heads of the coaches and administrators of NCAA programs? Yep they do. Do they tarnish the reputations of those involved? Because BYU had no knowledge of the wrongdoing ⌠that we are aware of ⌠does it give them a get out of jail free card? In fact the NCAA basically told BYU to ⌠donât pass go and donât collect $200 in addition to giving back the rent that BYU collected from Boardwalk and Park Place while Nick Emery was a tenant. What did BYU do instead? Fight it and Give Rose a raise because of all the good he did while the program lost schollies, probation, fines were imposed, recruiting was limited, and wins were vacated.
Whether you keep a close eye your on kids or not, whether a University keeps a close eye on its programs or not⌠the consequences of poor decisions will come sooner of later. Our hope is to limit the number of poor decisions and intervene as quickly as possible in both situations for the good of all concerned. BYU was not proactive in this situation and unlike parenting where there is no monetary payment or salary for parents Who have kids ⌠the highly compensated employees of the basketball team and the leaders of the athletic department are paid to do their jobs ⌠which includes monitoring the scholarship athletes to the best of their ability. They will still miss things ⌠but this situation wasnât just a miss here and there ⌠it was no supervision for 2 years and now they are going to suffer the consequences of that behavior. Unfortunately we as alumni will also be stained a little.
Santiago/Holmoe and Rose need to be held responsible. But so far they are just being rewarded⌠see any issues with that?
One more beat the dead horse comment Floyd. The answer to your question about whether I âexpect the coaches and athletic administrators to watch the student athletes 24/7 LOLâ
YES I do! From a practical standpoint a monthly interview with the athlete ⌠monitor social media ⌠making athlete aware that it is your responsibility to watch out for their welfare is something BYU must do from here on out.
Actually Floyd, it isnât important that I think this ⌠its important because the NCAA thinks this should be done ⌠they make and enforce the rules and they have said that not knowing what is going on in your athletic dept is called lack of institutional control and if you are found to be in that boat 
. Then you better start bailing water because you are going to be sunk by the NCAA!
Floyd is right, there is a lot of gray area and things that are being misconstrued or mischaracterized. That is the truth. Did he mess up? Yes. Is it being blown out of proportion? Yes. Is the ncaa a joke? Yes.
We live in a world where everything is about agendas and motivated by political reasons and people out to get someone to cover up their own problems. Just spend a moment looking around you and it is plain as day what is going on. We live in a phony, shameless society.
1 Like
You present a detailed case of reasons. However, you arenât correct that the sins automatically fall on the heads of the parents. They only fall on the heads of the parents if the parents do not teach the children and do all they can to prevent children from falling away.
So, the point Floyd and others are saying do you or the NCAA know if Rose and his coaching staff along with BYU and the Prophet know anything about what Emery and the boosters were doing? Or, did Rose and staff do everything you said they should have done? Since this is a first for Rose Iâm going to say he does and one was able to conceal the sins.
Hopper, I am not speaking about spirituality and sins. I am talking about social morality and whether or not a kid gets his license and takes the car out and drives down the wrong side of the road⌠smashing into another vehicle. The parent can show that they made the kid take drivers Ed. They can explain to the court that they drove with the kid for 6 months before the kid got his license and taught him not to drive on the wrong side of the road, but the court will still allow the victim to sue the parents because they own the car ⌠Rose and BYU should have secured the locker room. Rose and BYU should have a decent handle on the social media accounts of every scholarship athlete at BYU. If there is anything that deserves a question ⌠then call the athlete and talk about it. This will reinforce the NCAA standards of student athletes and protect them and the school. I suppose that BYU Alumni are generally more hesitant to blantantly break the rules than most big D-1 universities but still we have to place protections over the student athletes and the programs and school they represent. Terry Nastif. ⌠just a name that stands out as a person who might question something that was odd or out of place and he left the program on his own?? Wonder if the NCAA talked to Terry?
The answer is that i donât think Rose or his staff did everything they should have done. That is also what the NCAA thinks. I also believe that this issue is being actively talked about at the highest levels of BYU. There are policies being put in place as a result of what has happened and a number of administrators have reached out to alumni to get a handle on what is being said outside of the BYU bubble. I am confident that the correct people are aware of the PR issue Holmoe created and the lax security of the bb program and ADâs office in regards to supervision of student athletes. There will be some good that comes from this and a few leashes have been shortened.
thawk: â. . . the court will still allow the victim to sue the parents because they own the car . . .â
Me: In your scenario, Rose could have paid (himself) 25 PIs to watch the kid exclusively 24/7 to keep the kid out of trouble and done everything else under the sun for prevention purposes and it would still be Roseâs / Holmoeâs / whoever else in the administration / governing body fault. Obviously thawk this is a MAJOR issue for you to blast all involved. However, everything said on this board about Emery and his mistake is SPECULATION AND NOTHING BUT SPECULATION. and that goes for everyoneâs insider information.
NawâŚsee the example you wrote isnât morally right either. If a judge or jury convicts the parents then society has strayed off the path of moral righteousness. The car didnât cause the accident. People hurt people and property. Not cars or guns. Right and wrong have become blurred by progressive liberalism.
As for Emery the rest of the student athletes, they are 18+ and considered adults. Rose taught Emery not to do what he did. Rose has established a system to prevent what happened. It was Emeryâs deception. After all, the only time in all the years Rose has been coaching at BYU. The mechanisms to prevent this were probably well in place before Rose started coaching there.