Scheduling FCS teams is Counterproductive for any/all reasons

Football
41

Sr. Burton,

Yes, I have experience the prejudice of which you speak. The Hawaii game comes to mind when Gary Crowton brought us to #5 in the Nation. DOMAN was our QB and Luke Stayley was our RB and received the Doak Walker award. Minutes before the game, it was announced that even if win the Hawaii game, 13-0 season, we would not be allowed in the BCS Bow. That was indeed prejudice. 13-0 season if we won Hawaii and #5 in the polls and not allowed in the BCS bowls.

That was then and this is now.

We can not say it is about religion. We can not say it is about No Sunday Play. We can not say it is about our Honor Code. The rules are clearly defined as to what type a a schedule a P5 team must have,

For a G5 team, our schedule is a monster, hugh, and toughest of all G5 teams. If we want to be thought of as a G5 team, we need not complain and we need not to any better. We are great,
But we do not fit the qualifications of an even tougher P5 conference team that requires no less than 9 P5 team on the schedule each season.

We have the advantage over teams like Boise State, UCF, Houston, Memphis and 5-6 other top notch G5 teams in that we, as an independent, are considered for programing, a P5 team, because teams in the SEC, for their non conference games, must play 3 other P5 teams in addition to the 9 P5 teams they must play in their own conference.

With this hugh advantage of being a P5 team for programing purposes, we can capitalize on it by playing with all the rules of a team from a P5 conference and like ND, be truly considered a P5 team in all aspects, or ---- we can take the easy way out, and blow that advantage and playing a weaker schedule than other Pr conference teams.

42

grasshopper,

Football only, for the reasons you state, is the best bet for us getting into a P5 conference.
We struggle enough the the G5 conference that our other sports are attached to.

Football is the money maker. If you do not want to get into a P5 conference, than all of your statements are more understandable and more valid, in my opinion.

If you do want into a P5 conference for Football only, than perhaps you may want to have a more open mind to what I am posting and for your own gratification, check out what I am saying with ESPN.

43

Ron. U see that and I see that but to some people we live in OZ and there really is a yellow brick road. Next year’s schedule is brutal and we could be lucky to see 5-7 so I’m not going to complain about the one gimme

44

We aren’t going to get into a P5 conference with football only. They want all our sports teams to be in their league, not just football. Therefore, P5’s don’t want us if they have competition on Sunday’s for other sports. They aren’t keeping us out because they are bigots.

45

Ron,
I didn’t say that we are G5 playing a brutal schedule for 2016. We no longer in the G5 Conference. We all know that B10, SEC and ACC that we are part of P5 but not in any of their P5 Conferences. I like to see you in Tom Holmoe position and work this out.

I did watch Wagner game but fell asleep right about half way through of 1st qtr. Yes that game was for 2nd string and beyond bench warmer players so they can get their playing time or experience.

46

Watching this game and we don’t belong in a P5 conference. We will be lucky to win.

47

dew,

I would not be in Holmoe’s position, because I know that I am not smart enough to do the job as well as it needs to be done if we are to ever get to the next level. I would much rather be on a selection committee, and I do think that I am smart enough for this position, in search of someone that not only is capable of getting the job done, but someone that is strong enough to stand up to those that might be tempted to keep him from getting that job done.

48

Sr_Burton,

If indeed we really think that we belong in a P5 Conference, as our HC and our AD says we want to belong, than we had darn well better get use to playing a schedule like a P5 conference team or we will look like fools if we ever do get that invitation and we are not prepared.

Yes, on this site, there are always 2-3 posters that point out that a few P5 conference teams, not in the SEC, and not in the ACC, that stlll schedule a FCS team for a non conference team. Not so in the ACC and not so in the SEC and as the Big 12 will tell you, their is punishment issued by the Power 4 play off committee if you do. (#4 Baylor and #3 TCU 2014).

Those teams, that may have an FCS team plays, like all other P5 teams that do not have a FCS team plays, at least 9 P5 teams per season.

With 128 teams, if we want to be considered a P5 type team, our average should be in the top
64 of those 128 teams. If we fall into the bottom of those 64 teams, we will be thought of as more like a G5 type team.

When we allow our SOS to slip, we are our own biggest enemy and Sunday Play is just an excuse.
Honor Code is just an excuse. Religion is just an excuse. None of those excuses are honest.
The honest truth is we are not willing to do what it takes to be considered a P5 team. What it takes, is to schedule like a P5 team, have our coaches to all the Pre game preparation in the film rooms like a P5 conference team, and the coaches must teach and must train our players to play like a P5 team. Next, we will start winning like a P5 team.

Any coach not capable of taking on this responsibility should step aside and let some in that is willing to be a full time, P5 type coach.

1 Like
49

Define what a P5 conference schedule is?

Look at the PAC12, Big 12, ACC, Etc. how many teams in those conference are door mats?

So again define a P5 conference…

WE CAN NOT PLAY 11-12 P5 teams every year… it is impossible, because we do not have the depth to do so (just look a the San Jose game where three of the five O-lineman started their first game)…

Wagner was scheduled for the simple reason of changes made for this weekend game… it was a last minute deal…

50

Sr_ Burton,

In 2016, if we still think that our schedule is brutal, we are thinking like a G5 team.

There in lies the problem. We want to be thought of as a P5 team, but we don’t want to schedule like a P5 team.

A P5 team plays no less than 9 other P5 teams each and every season.

Now, our 2016 schedule is a cream puff schedule if we are truly thinking of ourselves as a P5 team, because we have less than 9 P5 teams to play on our schedule like other P5 conference teams.

It’s time that the people on this board start to be honest with themselves. Do we want a guaranteed bowl game each and every season by scheduling 6 teams that can not possibly beat us.

Do we want to have 10-2 seasons or better each season by programing 10 teams each season that we know we can beat, and occasionally schedule 11-12 teams that we know we can beat?

We can join a Big Sky Conference and be the biggest strongest team in that conference that everyone can look up to and admire that is in that conference. Is that what we want?

Or:

Do we want to play like a major league college football team where we have to win our games on the field and not just program those wins?

Do we want to be as good in a P5 conference as two teams that use to be our peers in the MWC, TCU and Utah?

Then get it into your heads, we are not going to get it by just saying we are BYU and therefore we deserve it. Instead, we are going to have to earn it. Anyone that tells you differently is a major part of our problem.

If anyone says again that we are kept out because of our “No Sunday Play” or because of our
“Honor Code”, or because of our “Religion” I think I will scream until I have no voice left to scream. Those that use those excuses are in total hopeless denial that doesn’t have a clue.

We have to earn our way. It’s as simple as that.

51

Floyd,

Let me answer your question, What is a P5 conference team?

It is a team that plays at least 9 P5 teams each and every season.

If you are in the SEC or ACC you play even more.

If you belong to the Pac 12, the Big 12, the Big East, The ACC, or the SEC, you are a P5 conference team.

Each conference has it’s best teams that are among the best each season and they have their worst teams that are consistently the worse season after season. They also have a group of teams, that consistently, season after season, neither the best nor the worst.

For example, not ever season, but a significant number of seasons, Colorado, Oregon State and Washington State will be among the worst teams of the Pac 12 while USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon will be among the best teams of that conference. Each conference has it’s own examples.

It is my opinion, that BYU, on a regular basis, right now, could probably be good competition for the bottom two teams of each conference and we could win most of those games. That would truly be a brutal schedule for us at this time.

Other P5 teams, must play 9 other P5 teams from their own conference, plus 3 other teams.
They would look at us playing only the seller dwellers of those 5 P5 conferences, a cream puff schedule.

As an Independent, we could pick and choose among those that would make themeselves available to us. As a member of a P5 conference, we would not have the luxury of picking and choosing. We must play 9 teams from our own conference which would include some of the toughest teams in the nation.

52

So If BYU played let say… San Jose State that is on the same level as Colorado, would that be considered a P5 team, although SJSU does not belong to a P5 conference?

When we play Boise State that has beaten the likes of UCLA, Washington, and other P5 teams …does that count, even thought they are part of the MWC?

No P5 team plays as many as BYU will next year (Well maybe except the SEC or Big 12 teams), but yet…you complain about BYU doing the exact same thing as the P5 teams… they play lesser schools (FBS schools).

Not sure what you expect BYU to do when most of the P5 teams are booked in the later part of the season and NO P5 conference at this time wants BYU to join them.

53

emphasized textstrong text2015 SEC FOOTBALL SCHEDULE OF FCS OR LOW RANKING SCHOOLS - NOT COUNTING THE SEC BOTTOM FEEDERS:
ALABAMA: Middle Tennessee, UL Monroe, Charleston Southern
ARKANSAS: Tx El Paso, Toledo, UT Martin,
AUBURN: Jacksonville State, SJSU, Idaho
FLORIDA: New Mexico State, East Carolina, Florida Atlantic
GEORGIA: UL Monroe, Southern U, Georgia Southern
KENTUCKY: UL Lafayette, Eastern Kentucky, UNC Charlotte
LSU: McNeese State, Eastern Michigan, Western Kentucky
OLE MISS: UT Martin, Fresno State, New Mexico State
MISSISSIPPI STATE: Southern Miss., Troy, Louisiana Tech
MISSOURI: Southeast Missouri State, Arkansas State, U Conn.
SOUTH CAROLINA: North Carolina, Citadel
TENNESSEE: UAB, Western Carolina, North Texas
TEXAS A&M: Ball State, Nevada, Western Carolina
VANDERBILT: Western Kentucky, Austin Peay, Middle Tennessee

There ya go Ron, the vaunted SEC.

\

54

IT is not an equal playing field. BYU has to go to the P5 homes to get the games to play. They, the P5’s do not book 1 away and 1 at home. Just look at the last times BYU played Alabama and Notre Dame. Those teams did not honor their end of the deal.

In reality BYU’s schedule this year and 2016 is much more difficult than a P5 schedule.

55

The 2016 schedule is tough because the P5 teams we are playing are near the top of their conferences even if it’s only 8 P5 teams. ACC front runners probable have 5 San Jose teams that make up half their conference. The NCAA is just like every other organization -it’s all about money. I would guess that BYU brings in more money than half the P5 schools in football and basketball. Did we think that by being an independent we were going to be the next Notre Dame. If so we were deceiving ourselves. Not many schools could get away with what Note Dame gets away with as far as scheduling and home and away. So obviously BYU needs to get in a P5 conference. We are probably already better than half the P5 schools and bring in more revenue than half the P5 schools so what if we played 9 bottom feeder P5 schools - how would we look then? If we were a P5 school then nobody blinks an eye when we play Wagner. The premise that we aren’t able to get into a P5 conference because we play such a soft schedule, which our schedule rates pretty well over all-i don’t really buy that - but I think our status as an independent or a member of - say the Mountain West - allows people to pick games like Wagner and give a little sneer which they don’t dare do for Notre Dame. Anyway - don’t think playing Wagner is keeping us out of a P5 conference and I would really like some energized fan to look up the stats on revenues and sos and compare it to other P5 scools-my guess is we fall somewhere in the middle. You know BSU has played in several major bowl games in the last few years - but they only seat half of what BYU does, but those fans are 100% crazy about their team. I disagree that the honor code doesn’t hurt recruiting - there are just a whole lot of 5 and 4 star athletes that don’t want to subject themselves to that lifestyle and that’s ok!

56

Were you at BYU in the mid-to-late 1960’s or early 1970’s? If so you would know of how ignorance of the requirements of the Priesthood made BYU a hated school. We were demonstrated against and hot angle irons were thrown at the BYU cheer leaders and basketball players.Men exposed themselves to the BYU Cougarettes at basketball games. San Jose State officials stated openly that they wouldn’t play BYU anymore because of the Priesthood issue in the Church. Yet many BYU students wore read arm bands at the BYU-SJSU football game demonstrating that we had more Native Americans at BYU than any other college in America.The University of Arizona sent a student committee to BYU to “investigate” BYU and had forums about the Priesthood in the Wilkinson Center. After their three day or so visit the committee reported that BYU had “No more or no less prejudice against “Afro-Americans” (1960’s-1970’s preferred self-proclaimed name for African Americans) than any other school.”

57

Sr Burton, very good post. I agree with just about everything that you said in your post.To my knowledge, BYU is the only school with 30,000 plus students not in a P-5 conference. If that isn’t discrimination, what is?

58

Ron U: Keep on screaming. BYU has played a major basketball schedule forever, we won two NIT tournaments when the NIT was really a tough tournament. In 1951 it was the elite tournament over the NCAA tournament. In 1966 we played all three games in Madison Square Garden. We beat NYU on its home court by 16 or 17 points in the championship game. Our football team has very competitive since the 1960’s. Yet we are the only major university sitting on the outside of P-5 looking in. Scream Ron, scream.

59

Right on fish. I am with you all the way.

60

Roy: I am with you. BYU we are told was “forced” into playing Wagner to get the Missouri game.